A Small Hope: Co-creating a Narrative of Grief – Part I *

This story is dedicated by “Claudia” to “Tom” in memory of his loving ways.

I would like to thank “Claudia” for her generosity in joining me in adventuring into new territories. There would be no story without her.

I would like to thank Aileen Cheshire, Catherine Cook, William Cooke, and Peggy Sax for their insights and helpful suggestions, and David Epston for his editorial support.

Introduction

Grief can be excruciating. The pain of loss may be overwhelming at times and its duration and intensity can be a shock to many. However, it is not always so. Relationships are shaped differently and there are many possible stories that can be told of such an experience.

The following illustration of Narrative Therapy (2) was originally written as a therapeutic document for a woman who had been forced to contend with the death of her partner while she parented their young children. “Claudia” (3), as she chose to call herself for this article, was experiencing significant loss. At the same time, she was struggling to find compassion for herself. I hoped that if Claudia viewed herself in a story of our conversations, the narrative might lend strength to the new understandings we were co-constructing. Claudia was enthusiastic about the idea of co-creating such a document and after going through a careful consent process, we agreed that we would record our conversations and write a story from the transcriptions.

Our purposes for writing a story evolved. As time passed, Claudia wanted to share her knowledge of grieving with others. When we discussed the possibility of sharing the story with a wider audience, I hoped the story might show the unfolding of therapy, and in particular, narrative practices that companion a person (4) and invite them to explore new meanings of their experience.

I have therefore added footnotes to the story [Ed. Note: Please see the original article for these notes]. The footnotes explain more of what I was thinking as Claudia and I spoke, and why I asked particular questions. They also include some thoughts on narrative practice with people who are suffering as they live with loss. You may choose to read the story and the footnotes together or separately.

For those of you who are interested in experimenting with writing a story, in contrast to other forms of therapeutic documents, please see an earlier paper I have written on writing narrative therapeutic letters. I have described the process of story writing and some of the possible benefits within that paper.   

A Cupful of Time Folded in with Love

“It’s urgent,” the community nurse told me solemnly. “Yesterday, Tom was told he was bleeding internally by the doctor at the hospital. When he heard nothing could be done to stop it, he asked his wife Claudia to take him home. Understandably, they are reeling; this has all happened so fast. We’ve offered counselling support and Claudia has agreed. She’s asked if you could ring after 10 o’clock so you don’t wake the baby from her morning nap.”

I walked back down the hallway towards my office reflecting on what it might be like to receive such news. Just after 10 o’clock I telephoned. Claudia answered. “Hello, it’s Sasha speaking. I’m one of the counsellors from the hospice. I understand you might be interested in meeting up with me. Have I got that right?” Quite often people have another understanding from a referrer, so I was tentative to give Claudia space to say what she wanted. (5)

“Yes, that would be great,” she replied.

“How would tomorrow suit you?” I asked, thinking of the urgency of the situation.

“Look, it’s very kind of you. I know it’s Friday tomorrow but it’s going to have to be next week. I’m sorry. I promised our five-year-old, Imogen, I would bake a cake with her tomorrow. It’s her birthday and I promised,” Claudia apologised in a rush.

“Are you the kind of mother who honours promises?” I asked with a smile in my voice. (6)

I heard Claudia let out a long breath. “She’s been looking forward to it all week.”  

Warmly, we now began to make a time to meet up. In the back of my mind, I was thinking about Claudia prioritising a promise to her daughter when she was possibly having the worst time of her life. Images of baking with my own young daughter many years ago floated through my mind. I wondered, “What might Imogen remember of this time when her Daddy was dying and when promises were kept to her five-year-old self? What might she say about the way she was cared for by her Mum at such a terrible time?” I also appreciated Claudia’s ability to put me off and say what she wanted. I was well aware it wasn’t easy to delay health professionals, especially to honour the wishes of a child.

I looked forward to meeting Claudia and Tom, and learning more about them.

A Surprising Renewal

I parked the hospice car down the road from the house, worried that the signage on it might communicate to the neighbours something Claudia and Tom wished to keep private. It wasn’t the anonymous unadorned car I usually drove. A young woman opened the front door of Tom and Claudia’s home and, as I looked at her animated face, I realised I knew her.

“Do you remember me?” she asked, wide-eyed, as if she could hardly believe who she was seeing.

“Yes!” I replied, flooded with memories. It was nearly 20years since Claudia and I had last seen each other. Her father had been dying at the time and Claudia was caring for him. I was working as a counsellor in a university counselling service and we had met together across the last 18 months of her father’s life. I easily recalled Claudia’s devotion to his care at a time when her contemporaries were more focused on parties and the opportunities study could provide them.

I walked further into a room that had ushered in many unfamiliar health professionals over the prior week, full of gratitude for this chance reunion and hopeful that it might make some difference for Claudia and Tom.

Claudia invited me to come into a bedroom for some privacy and together we sat on the bed. She was dressed comfortably in shorts and a T-shirt with her long, fair hair tied back off her face. Clothes that would be practical for parenting work and caring for Tom, I thought. There were dark circles under Claudia’s red, lidded eyes, easily visible because of her fair skin, and her face had a hollowed appearance in spite of her warm smile.

Claudia explained she had been up all night with their baby who was sick, and on top of that she herself had toothache. “Somehow, I am going to have to fit in an appointment with a dentist, but I don’t know how I’m going to find the time,” she exclaimed, throwing up her hands in dismay. After talking further, Claudia led me into a small, darkened room to meet Tom. He lay on a single bed unmoving and silent. Claudia touched Tom gently and he turned his head towards us. “This is Sasha,” she said. Tom looked up at me and we exchanged a greeting.

I sat down on a chair facing Tom while Claudia ignored the other chair which was placed near his pillow. Instead, she sat on the floor with her arm resting on Tom’s shoulder. Tom’s skin was a faded tan colour, suggesting to me he had once spent considerable time out of doors. In response to my greeting, he slowly shifted in the bed with jerky movements. Once he had settled, I leaned forward looking at him. “Tom, it’s lovely to meet you.”

He was a tall man I guessed, with fair hair and a kind face, softly lined around his eyes and mouth. “I’m aware talking can take a lot of precious energy. Is this an OK time for the three of us to talk together, or would you rather we spoke another time? I want to do whatever best suits you and Claudia. I can easily fit in either way,” I offered, smiling warmly at him.

“I’d like to talk for a bit. I won’t last long. We’ve been looking forward to it,” he responded, glancing at Claudia.

“When you find yourself beginning to tire, will you notice and be able to let me know?” I inquired, thinking I would need to be alert for any signs I was extending the conversation longer than he could comfortably manage.

“Claudia will know. She’ll tell us both.” Claudia nodded, her face soft and relaxed.

“Thank you.” Sitting back in my chair, I made myself comfortable while I looked from Claudia to Tom. “Illnesses have a way of taking over people’s lives and yet people are so much more than the illness they are living with. Would it be OK if I asked you a bit about yourselves and your lives before all this happened?” (7)

“Gosh it’s so nice to be asked that,” Claudia exclaimed. “It makes me feel like I matter, we matter. Tom’s a teacher and you probably noticed the garden. He grows plants from seed and often ones that are good to cook with.”

In a faltering voice Tom contributed, “Yeah… I’ve taught younger age groups and I love to garden and cook.”

“Food is very important in this house!” Claudia laughed.

Tom quietly added, “In the last year I’ve worked tutoring from home … it’s been ideal with me having cancer.” I considered asking Tom about how he lived with cancer but decided to pursue getting to know them more a bit more first. Claudia continued the conversation in a lively manner sharing with me stories of her work and interests.

“Tom, if I were to know Claudia as you do, what might I come to appreciate and respect about her?” (8)

Tom looked at Claudia as he answered me. “I love Claudia very deeply. She is kind. Really kind. I saw that from the first. She is honourable and dedicated to the people and things she believes in. Her loyalty is like none other and there is nothing I wouldn’t share or confide in her. Claudia is a wonderful, loving mother. Knowing that makes it easier for me to be sick because I know I will be leaving the girls in her care.”

“Could you tell me a story that illustrates some of these attributes you love and appreciate in Claudia?” (9)

Tom spoke of the care Claudia had given her father as he was dying. “She will always have your back,” he told me.

“What difference has Claudia ‘having your back’ made to you?”

“It has given me a whole new life that I wouldn’t have had without her. It’s meant I can be myself and pursue my interests. It has meant I have had the joy of becoming a father.”

Claudia responded by clasping Tom’s hand. “I love you so much,” she whispered.

After I asked Tom a few more questions, I turned to Claudia.

“Claudia if were to get to know a little of the Tom that you love so much, what might I come to respect and appreciate about him?”

“You’d appreciate his authenticity. Tom is real. He has a wicked sense of humour too! He’s always polite but he doesn’t suffer fools.”

“Would it be OK to ask you for a story of Tom’s authenticity and his wicked sense of humour?” I grinned at Tom and his eyes twinkled in return. Claudia launched into some stories with enthusiasm. Tom lay back quietly enjoying her words.

As the conversation progressed, it turned quite naturally towards the cancer and what they had been going through. I looked over to Tom and inquired, “What do you give weight to in your days as you live with this cancer?” (10)

“My family, being a father, I like to be involved with the girls,” Tom confided. A small smile emerged on his face. Tom tried to raise himself in the bed but, before Claudia could help him, slipped back down and, seeming to give up on a sitting position, rested his head on the pillow. When he looked comfortable again, I asked, “Could you help me to understand a little of what it means to you to be a father?”

“I love it! I wasn’t truly happy until I was a Dad. I took one look at Imogen, our eldest, and I fell in love.”

I was aware Tom’s words might carry meaning that could be passed on and retold down the years, perhaps providing solace for his girls.

“Could I ask you about this experience of falling in love?”

Contentment seemed to flow over his face for a moment, relaxing the lines as he contemplated my question. “Sure. I didn’t know what happiness was till Imogen came along. She made my life complete.”

“What did Imogen’s birth give you that has you experiencing this sense of completion and happiness?” I responded smiling.

Tom pondered, “I think it was a proper purpose….”

Claudia joined us. “…Being parents connected us to what’s important…I think Tom’s found a role that really fits him. He’s a good father.”

Tom’s quiet voice gained strength and the corners of his eyes turned up. “…And then Libby was born and I felt overwhelmed with wonder.”

“What had you overwhelmed with wonder when Libby was born?” I asked, collecting stories again. (11)

“Libby having her very own personality and the way she could let her feelings be known,” he responded with a chuckle. Claudia joined in, “He sent me a message when I was at work that said, “Baby does not want to sleep in the bedroom today. She was very vocal on the matter!” Claudia laughed. “Tom always appreciates her strength of character and being able to understand what she’s trying to say.”

Enjoying their delight, I responded, “What is important to you both that the experience of parenting has connected you to?”

“Our values and beliefs,” Claudia told me. Tom nodded, meeting Claudia’s eyes. “What we treasure.” I was keen to ask them more about their values and beliefs, but I didn’t know how long we might have for our conversation. Tom was likely managing fatigue and so I decided to pursue another path. I would return to the detail of what they treasured at a later date.

“Would it be OK to ask how this giving weight to what you believe in and treasure shapes your experience of living with cancer?” (12)

“It’s given us good times, wonderful times in amongst the hard stuff. The girls make each day worth living for,” Tom answered.

“We spent one morning just watching Libby learn to roll,” Claudia laughed.

Our laughter was cut off by sounds of crying from the room upstairs followed by shuffling as Tom’s mother walked quickly to attend to Libby.

Claudia tilted her head as she listened for signs Libby had been soothed. Tom stilled listening as well. “How will I do it without you?” she whispered, looking back to Tom. Tears began to flow down Claudia’s face. Stifling sobs, she rested her head on Tom’s chest and stretched her arms out as if to cradle the entire length of his body.

“I’m still here now. I’m still here now,” he crooned, patting her back.

“How will I raise the girls without you?” Claudia reiterated.

“I trust you. You will do a good job,” he said, trying to placate her. Tom continued to pat Claudia’s back in the age-old rhythm of comfort. I remained quiet, touched by her pain and his attempts to console her. (13)

After a time, I asked him, “What is it that you know about Claudia that allows you to trust her?”

Tom began to describe his faith in Claudia, gently patting her back all the while he talked.

“Could you tell me a story that illustrates this trust you hold for Claudia and her parenting?”

Tom expressed his admiration for Claudia as a mother. “She always puts the girls first.” He told me stories of her kindness and her beliefs about mothering, explaining how important their shared parenting beliefs were to them. As he spoke, Claudia listened silently, intent on his every word.

“How might you like to carry these beliefs you share forward so Imogen and Libby might know something of what is important to you as a couple and as a family?” I responded.

Claudia suggested they create a family charter that recorded their values. (14) Tom was enthusiastic about such a project and together we discussed what might be included in the document.

I checked with Tom as to how his energy levels were at regular intervals. Mindful that it is hard to send someone away, when I noticed his eyelids start to droop a little, I began to bring the conversation to an end.

“How has this conversation been going? Have we talked about what you hoped we might or have I taken us off track?” I checked.

“It’s been good,” Claudia said.

“Thanks. I liked talking,” Tom said warmly.

Claudia showed me out a few minutes later.

A Small Hope

Over the following week I heard that Tom had stopped eating and was now unable to leave his bed. The nurses told me that Claudia had insisted no one speak to her about his symptoms or deteriorating condition.

At the end of the week I went to see Tom and Claudia as we had arranged.

Claudia and I sat outside in the garden at an old wooden table. Tom was inside sleeping, too sick to talk. The garden provided a quiet private place away from the activity of the household as the extended family all worked together to care for him and the girls. Tired, harrowed faces had welcomed me and in the heavy movements of the family, I thought I could feel unspoken sadness weighing down their every step.

Claudia looked up as the leaves ruffled in the moving air. “It’s been a better week.”

“When you look back on the last two weeks, do you have some ideas about what has contributed to this week being better?” I asked, incorporating her words into my question.

“I’ve stopped looking ahead,” Claudia replied. Not wanting to presume what Claudia meant, I responded, “May I ask, where do you look when you’re not looking ahead?”

“No one can know exactly what’s going to happen, can they?” Claudia replied. “Now I only think about today and I have some hope.”

“Could you help me to understand a little of what this hope (15) is to you?”

Claudia paused, bowing her head.

“It is only a small hope,” she said in a quiet voice as if confessing something. “…To be with Tom, for another day or maybe even a few days.” Claudia looked up at me with tears gleaming in her eyes.

“May I ask what difference this small hope makes to you?” I replied, moved by the humility of her hope.

“It means I’m not crying all the time. I sat by the window and told Tom what I saw outside. We spent some time talking quietly together once Imogen was at school. I made him a little something for lunch and we sat together. He told me being together like that was ‘perfect,’ and he has never said that before.”

“As you look out the window describing the view to Tom, what does this small hope do that has Tom finding your time together perfect?”

“I can enjoy the moment and he feels that. It helps me forget what is coming,” Claudia explained.

“When you spend these moments that the small hope has given you, what has been made possible that hadn’t been there in the week before?” I knew that the week before had been distressing for them both.

“Close time together. Over the past few months, we’ve been arguing because of the stress and that isn’t us,” was Claudia’s reply.

“How did you come to find closeness in sharing the view from the window and talking and bringing Tom food?”

Claudia told me with eagerness now edging into her voice, “It’s what we’ve always done together, enjoyed the simple things. We like to enjoy those things that money can’t buy.” Claudia continued telling me stories illustrating this.

“What else do you do in the day that speaks to the closeness you share as a couple, and as parents together, and brings you closer to Tom?”

“Gardening,” Claudia readily answered. “I feel close to him when I do his garden and I will keep doing it. I just couldn’t do it before. I was too shocked. Now I have some hope and it gets me through the day.”

“How important is this hope in keeping you close to Tom and getting through the day?”

Firmness was in her voice as she stated, “Very, very important. It means I can enjoy some time with Tom and that is the most important thing to me. The time is so precious. And I don’t want to cry every minute.” We carried on talking about how Claudia and Tom were enjoying the window of time they still had together when Claudia confided, “Did you know I’ve stopped the nurses telling me about Tom’s symptoms?” She glanced up at me and paused, “Maybe that means I’m in denial, I don’t know.”

“What sort of talk are you encouraging or hoping for when you halt discussion about Tom’s condition?” I asked.

Her reply tumbled out. “I know what’s coming…I just want a little longer, just a little longer with him without thinking of that. It’s always there in the background but I don’t want to go there before I have to.”

I could easily understand why Claudia might want to protect the hope that was allowing her to savour time with Tom. To me it was not denial of his approaching death but rather embracing what was most important to her — close time with Tom before he died.

I left that day not knowing when Claudia and I would next meet. The uncertainty Tom and Claudia were living with made it difficult for Claudia to plan. We had agreed she would call me when she next wanted to meet.

The following week I heard that Tom was dying. The hospice nurses were visiting daily and every effort was being made to keep him comfortable.

One morning I arrived at work early. I sat down at my desk noting the light was blinking on my answerphone. I punched in the numbers to access my messages. There was just one. One of the hospice community nurses had called to let me know Tom had died. “Claudia would like to see you,” she said.  

“Such a lot has happened since we last met. Would you like to talk about the last fortnight or is there another place you would rather begin?” I asked, seeking to create some space for her to guide me as to how she wanted to begin our conversation. I didn’t know how talking about Tom dying would be for Claudia or what language she preferred to use. (17)

Claudia spoke slowly contemplating her words as if they were transporting her back in time. “I moved Tom back into our room after I saw you. I’m so glad I did. It was much nicer for him.” She smiled tenderly. “I lay beside him on the bed that last week as he was dying. I told him over and over, ‘You’re loved and you’re safe.’ It was just him and me when he died…” Claudia paused, her eyes staring unfocused. Returning her attention to me she resumed speaking. “The family had left for the evening to give us some time alone together, but I called them when I realised he was dying. They came straight back. In the end, he died like he’d wanted.”

I imagined Claudia reassuring Tom with her love. “May I ask… what difference did it make to Tom to feel loved by you as he was dying?”

Claudia sat back in the sofa. “I guess he could bear it. He’d had a tough childhood because he was different, and he was bullied a lot. But when he died, he had a family. He was loved. He had all the things that were really important to him.” She glanced at a photo of Tom and the girls on the wall. I too looked at the picture of Tom holding Libby while Imogen wrapped herself around his legs.

The slow pace and rhythm of my words matched Claudia’s as I returned my entire attention to her and expanded my previous question. “What did it mean to Tom to have a family and to be loved as he was dying do you think?”

“Everything. A chaplain visited Tom at the hospital just after we heard the news he was going to die. The chaplain asked Tom, ‘Has it been a good life?’ and Tom said, ‘Yes. It has been a good life.’ It comforts me to think that. He always said he’d got a life through me he’d never expected to have.”

I leant towards her as I replied, “What was it that he got from his relationship with you that made his life good?”

“He said he learnt new things. He became a father. He said because of our relationship, he got to have a life he wanted but never imagined having.” Claudia’s body stilled and her mouth turned down. I responded tentatively, “Would you mind sharing with me a little more about this good life that your relationship gave Tom?” I hesitated. “Might Tom have said it was a longed for life?"  

“It was a longed for life,” Claudia replied emphatically. She wrapped her arms around her body as if to hug herself and began to recall how she met Tom and the friendship they shared. The words came out quickly matched by the tears that fell from her eyes. After a few minutes of talking, Claudia slowed, releasing her arms from her body, and sat back on the sofa. “He said he’d always been on the outside and never felt like he belonged. It all changed for him when we were together. We both valued friendship and loyalty and it built our relationship.”  

I was spellbound by what they had given each other. “People mean many things when they talk about friendship and loyalty. What were yours and Tom’s understandings and how did they show in your relationship… that had Tom moving from feeling on the outside to stepping inside and experiencing belonging, friendship, and love…a longed for life?”

It was a long question and I said it slowly with expression. Claudia stared at me attentively. Eagerly she replied, “We had each other’s backs. Even if we didn’t agree, we always loved each other. We respected our differences and opinions. Our love was always there even in the way I cared for him. When Tom got sick, he said it changed how he dealt with having cancer.”

“How did this love you shared and the loving ways you cared for Tom influence how he lived with the cancer?” (18)

Claudia leant towards me, seeming oblivious to anything other than what she was about to express. “It meant he could go on enjoying his life. We were good at loving each other. We both changed and grew because of the relationship. I will never have another like it. It kind of gives me more to hold on to, and I keep saying to myself how grateful I am for my relationship with Tom, but it’s also so much more to lose.” Claudia lowered her voice, her passionate tones fading rapidly, and almost whispered, “I’ve been on the edge of a cliff for so long knowing there was a chasm ahead of me. I know I’m falling into it now but there’s this numbness. I hate it. It disconnects me from Tom. It’s like this isn’t real and it is.”

I reflected on the enormity of such a loss and Claudia’s ability to express gratitude at such a moment. “When you’ve had such a special relationship which both gives you more to hold on to and more to lose, how do you understand this sense of numbness?” Claudia nodded when I gave weight to the words “more to lose” and then replied hesitantly, “It’s an anesthetic. My body being kind maybe.”

“What does this sense of numbness speak to about the relationship you have with Tom and the magnitude of the loss do you think?” I wondered if the numbness was an expression of their close connection, and the magnitude of the loss Claudia was experiencing.

Claudia straightened her back and lifted her chin. “Tom dying is bigger than any loss I have been through before. Other people I have loved have died but nothing compares to this. Nothing!” She uttered the words emphatically as if arguing with an unseen audience. Then, making eye contact with me added, “Does that make sense?”

I nodded as she spoke, reflecting that she was in a much more informed position to speak of this than I was. “Losses are not the same, relationships are different, and circumstances are different. Would it be OK to ask what it is that contributes to Tom dying being an incomparable loss, the biggest loss you have ever experienced in your life?” I wanted to fully acknowledge her experience. (19)

Claudia wriggled back on the sofa unfolding her arms. Her chest rose as she took a deep breath. “He has been the most important person in my life. He is my best friend. I don’t want to forget.” I remembered h

Deciding How to Die: Narrative Therapy in Palliative Care with Someone Considering Stopping Dialysis

Acknowledgements

Thank you Larry Zucker, Aileen Cheshire, Timothy Pilkington, and Catherine Cook for your valuable comments and questions when reading earlier drafts of this story, and David Epston for your encouragement and insights throughout the many iterations.

An Introduction

Living with a life-ending illness can raise questions where there is no clear “right” answer. The following illustration of Narrative Therapy focuses on conversations with a man who was tortured by indecision as he considered whether to stop dialysis. Stopping dialysis would lead to his death. This story of our work together illustrates narrative therapy practices that can help to restore dignity, witness suffering, enhance meaning-making, and offer a person a sense of agency as they approach death. Accompanying the illustration of therapy are footnotes. The footnotes [Ed. Note: To be found in the original article] explain more about my thinking and the ideas behind some of the questions that I asked. They also describe how I have applied ideas drawn from philosophy and Narrative Therapy to practice in palliative care. You can choose to read the story of the therapeutic conversations and the footnotes either together or separately.

Deciding How to Die

“Please would you see Mr. Fionn Williams as soon as possible? He has end-stage kidney disease and is having dialysis three times a week. Fionn is being cared for at home by his son Liam, and Liam’s partner Pete. Every week, Fionn decides to stop dialysis only to change his mind at the last minute. This has been going on for months and he and his family are very distressed. Fionn describes himself as “tortured” by his indecision. Dr. White has discussed stopping dialysis with Fionn and his family a number of times. Fionn knows he doesn’t have long to live, and his quality of life is very poor, however, his indecision continues. Fionn has refused counselling support every time it has been offered, but yesterday, he changed his mind. His family are relieved he has accepted counselling and are waiting for your call.”

I rang Fionn immediately.

Reviving Dignity and Meaning

Fionn’s son Liam greeted me at the front door. Liam was a tall, lean man, in his thirties I guessed, with a welcoming manner. He invited me into a tidy living room to sit down and then excused himself to let Fionn know I had arrived.

Fionn hobbled into the room leaning on Liam. I stood up to greet him and, as he caught my eye, we exchanged a brief acknowledgement. As Fionn came closer, I could hear him breathing heavily. He was dressed in winter pyjamas and a heavy cardigan despite the warmth of the day. The grey hue of his skin and the care with which he nursed his body through each step made him look older than his 74 years. Unlike Liam, who had a deep red beard, Fionn was clean-shaven, but it was easy to see that they were father and son due to their similar statures and light blue eyes.

Liam supported his father into the comfortable looking chair beside me that I had carefully avoided sitting in. Fionn gingerly settled back into the chair and looked at me.

“Are you the one who’s come to analyse me? I’m quite curious to hear what you make of me,” he rasped crisply.

I smiled warmly as I leant forward to shake his hand, choosing to respond to the possibility of humour in his comment and to my hopes for the relationship rather than the crispness of his tone. “My name’s Sasha, I’m one of the counsellors from the hospice. I’m looking forward to talking with you, though I’m more interested to hear what you make of you and your experience.” I was aware that being a 58-year-old woman with a soft voice and a big smile might have added to this introduction some of the care I wished to convey. I was generally just what people expected when they agreed to see a counsellor working for hospice and that could ease our first moments of getting to know each other.

Fionn chuckled. Liam turned to his Dad with his eyebrows raised and a slight smile on his face. In a tone of pleasant surprise he said, “I’ll leave you to it Dad, so you can have some privacy.”

Fionn immediately replied, his voice wobbling as it betrayed the toll even speaking had on him, “No, no, you stay. I haven’t got any secrets from you.”

Liam responded by pulling up a chair so that the three of us sat around the coffee table. “Alright then but I’ll have to leave shortly Dad. I’ve got a few things to do.”

They both then turned and looked at me.

“Would it be OK to begin maybe, with me asking you a bit about yourselves?” I offered tentatively. Liam nodded and, looking at Fionn, I explained further, “… so that I might know a little of who and what matters to you. I find people are so much more than their current situation.”

Fionn’s tone was abrupt. “Sure,” he croaked. Before I could respond, Fionn heaved his body forwards gasping at the air as if unable to get enough of its vital oxygen.

I waited, watching until his breathing eased.

Once Fionn could speak again, he explained, “It’s like this a lot… very hard to breathe… If I start to cough, it’s going to interrupt us. Did they tell you it takes a while to settle it down?”

I wondered if the struggle to breathe was behind the severity with which Fionn expressed himself and reflected that he might be anxious or even afraid. Feeling so sick could be overwhelming and here he was risking meeting a stranger on top of everything else.

I spoke with sincerity looking into Fionn’s faded blue eyes, “I’m sorry I didn’t know that. Thank you for seeing me. If you start to cough, is it OK if I sit with you or is there something else you’d like me to do? I’d like to do whatever is most comfortable for you.”

Fionn’s voice softened. “Just wait for me to stop. I do eventually.”

“I’m happy to wait. I’m in no hurry. Please take all the time you need to be comfortable without worrying about me,” I said warmly, trying to reassure Fionn that he didn’t need to consider me.

I reflected that people often have to cope with the responses of others on top of the symptoms they are managing, and briefly wondered what Fionn’s experience had been.

Liam chipped in with, “Dad has some medication for it but basically nothing can be done. He puts up with a lot.”

Nodding at Fionn in acknowledgement, I considered pursuing what he was putting up with but then thought it might be more useful to come back to it later in the conversation. We didn’t know each other, and I wanted to create with Fionn an entryway into a space where his experience of illness and treatment could be spoken about without compromising his dignity.

Fionn helped me out by indicating where his interest lay.

“Yeah…so we were doing some introductions. What do you want to know?”

Guided by Fionn’s question, I reiterated, “Would you mind telling me a little about yourself to start with perhaps?”

Speaking to the floor, he answered, “Not much to tell… haven’t thought about anything much other than trying to get through each day for ages. Let’s see now…well, for a start you can call me Finn. It’s what my friends call me”.

I smiled appreciatively, thinking of his generosity in extending me his friendship. “Thank you, Finn. Is that Irish?”

“Yeah. My grandparents came out from Ireland.” He lifted his eyes from the floor and focused on a nearby corner.

The Sustaining Power of Music

I turned my head to look with interest.

Finn leant forward, and in spite of his weakness, managed to convey a flicker of enthusiasm. “Played it for years. It had a beautiful mellow sound until last year when I went downhill and couldn’t play it anymore.” Finn hung his head with his body seeming to follow as he collapsed back in his chair.

“What a beautiful instrument. How did you come to learn the cello?”

What could have been a hint of pride entered Finn’s voice as he raised his eyes to meet mine. “My Dad taught me and then I’ve practiced over the years.”

“How old were you when your father began to teach you?” I asked.

“Just a young nipper. Must have been about seven I s’pose”.

“Gee, that’s young. What did your father see in you that made him think he could teach you the cello when you were only seven years old?” I exclaimed.

Finn furrowed his brow thoughtfully. “I s’pose he knew I’d work at it. I’m not one to take something lightly, if you know what I mean. You have to start out young with strings ideally.”

I leant forward to better hear Finn as I asked, “When you say he knew you’d work at it and not take it lightly, would you mind explaining a little more of what you mean?”

“Well….”, Finn hesitated, “Dad knew I’d practice, and you’ve got to do that if you want to learn to play… especially with a stringed instrument. You have to make the notes you see. Even when I was a boy if I set my mind to something, I’d keep going with it.” Again, I noted a glimmer of what could have been pride in Finn’s demeanour. My keen interest must have been evident on my face. When Finn caught my eye, he explained further.

“When I was 4 years old, I decided I wanted to ride an old two-wheeler bike and there was just no way anyone was going to stop me trying. Did it too in the end. Just kept going till I did it.” Finn glanced at me again with a small smile transforming his lined face for an instant.

I responded immediately caught up in the picture he had drawn of himself. “What do you call this ability to keep going with something you want to do?”

“Grit, I guess. I’m a hell of a determined kind of fellow.”

“You sure are, Dad,” Liam echoed.

“What have you come to respect about your Dad’s grit and determination, Liam?” Finn peered at Liam while Liam told a story of Finn never leaving a job unfinished even if it became frustrating and difficult. Liam glanced at Finn as he spoke, seeming to check he was listening.

“Finn, has this ability to apply grit and determination shown up in other areas of your life?”

“Yeah, pretty much everywhere. I would have been dead by now if I hadn’t had it. It’s important to do your best at things and not cop out.” Finn’s certainty suggested to me that this was a quality he valued.

“Would it be too much to ask for another story of you giving of your best with grit and determination?” I enquired, aware Finn had little energy and might want to save it for other matters.

Finn began to give me other examples with Liam chiming in and sharing with me his father’s persistence in living with his disease. When we had gathered a collection of stories of Finn’s grit and determination, I returned to another piece of information he had shared.

“You also mentioned your father taught you the cello as he thought you would enjoy music. Do you think your father had some hopes for you in teaching and encouraging you further into a musical world?”

For a moment, light danced in Finn’s eyes softening the lines of weariness that marked his face. “Music always gave my Dad joy. He loved it and he wanted to pass that on to me. He did too.”

“Like your father, do you get joy from music?” I asked. Finn nodded in agreement. “Is this something you are still able to experience even now when you have so much to contend with?”

“Well, yeah,” Finn said, sounding surprised by himself. “…Especially if I’m listening to the Bach cello suites… beautiful.”

“What does this ability to appreciate music and to feel joy from listening to it give you day to day, especially at this time when you are living with some serious health issues?” I chose to narrow our focus to day-today living to reduce the size of my question.

“There isn’t much that I can do anymore. I used to be a landscape gardener. That’s gone! Liam and Pete keep my garden up for me now. I do appreciate what they do. But every month there’s another thing I can’t do. Listening to music is something that keeps me going I guess.” Resignation was thick in Finn’s tone.

I tried to imagine Finn’s world. “What is it about the experience of listening to music that keeps you going?”

Finn hesitated as he considered. “It takes me to another place.”

I was fascinated. “Would it be OK to ask where it takes you?”

Finn dropped his shoulders and his face relaxed. “Ah…it takes me back to happier times.”

I asked Finn about these happy times, and he responded readily, sharing some treasured memories. I then returned to an earlier thread of the conversation.

“When did you first notice that you could take yourself to another place while listening to music, even when you were unwell and perhaps had the pain and sickness to draw you back?” I framed my question in such a way that Finn might notice this as an ability and something he was doing. I was aware that a person’s experience of illness could rob them of a sense of having influence over their life.

“In the last year or two at dialysis… I couldn’t read… or concentrate… so I listened to music and it made the time better. I got sicker but it was a habit by then and, well, I’d done it every time. I was kind of used to it.”

“Used to it?” I queried, half to myself as I reflected, searching for a link to Finn’s increasing skill as he got less well.

“I’d kind of practiced it I s’pose…,” Finn explained.

My ears pricked up. “You practiced it? How did you go about that?”

“It’s just what I’ve always done. I started doing it more and more. Certain pieces are better than others. The 1812 Overture doesn’t help pain but if I’m feeling like I need a boost, it’s just the trick,” he shared with a small smile.

I furrowed my eyebrows as I reflected on what Finn had just explained. It seemed like he might have developed a number of skills to manage the symptoms he was experiencing and, hoping to draw these possible skills to Finn’s attention, I offered a brief summary for him to consider. “Can I just check that I’ve understood you right?”

I waited for Finn to indicate if it was alright with him for me to proceed. When he nodded with attention, I continued, “Have you worked out which music helps you live with this and have even discovered particular pieces of music are helpful to you at different times depending on how the illness is affecting you?”

“Well, yeah,” Finn exclaimed, looking pleased and surprised at the same time. He glanced at Liam who gave a firm nod and smiled with encouragement.

“And you said you’d practiced. Could you help me understand a bit more about this practice you’ve been doing?”

Liam and I both turned to Finn who looked as if he was enjoying himself. “I found if I knew the piece… well, I was more relaxed, I guess. It was easier to forget the bad stuff and relax… So… I listened to music I liked till I knew every note. It used to help. Not so much now. I’m too far gone now. Listening to music is one thing I can do though. That counts for something. There isn’t much… Liam and Pete sometimes come and sit with me, and we listen together.”

“It’s a nice time together, Dad. We enjoy spending it with you,” Liam added, as if trying to convince his father. Finn raised his eyebrows and gave Liam a tired smile as if he didn’t quite believe what Liam was saying.

I turned to Liam. “What is it that you enjoy about spending time with your Dad?”

“It’s nice to be together as a family…” he replied with a sidelong glance at Finn.

“Liam have you learnt anything from your Dad’s grit and determination or his ability to appreciate music and be taken to another place that has been useful to you in your life?”

Liam let out a big breath as if gathering some resolve. “It’s been enormously important to me. I had a tough time at school. I was bullied a lot. Mum was always supportive, which meant the world to me, but it was Dad who taught me how to keep going and not give in to it.” Finn looked down and shook his head slightly. Liam turned to his father trying to catch his eye and said, “You taught me how to survive, Dad.”

Finn muttered, “Wish I could have done more…I didn’t realise how tough it was for you.”

“Attitudes were different then. You’ve been wonderful since Mum died, having me and Pete here and all. Dad, I survived because of you and Mum. Both of you.”

Finn’s eyes glinted with tears as he reached out to Liam. They clasped hands for a moment. A small smile emerged on Finn’s face and his forehead relaxed. Liam lowered his shoulders and released a breath as he looked again at his father.

“Finn, what is it that you wish you could have done for Liam?”

Finn looked steadily at me but his words were for Liam. “Been there for him… understood more…protected him, I guess. Beth was better at it than me.” He turned awkwardly towards his son, moving his chest carefully around until his eyes eventually found Liam’s.

Liam choked up. He managed to croak, “Oh, Dad. That means a lot,” before emotion silenced him.

We sat together not speaking as we quietly honoured what had passed between Finn and Liam.

After a few minutes Finn began to cough. Liam touched his back lightly waiting patiently for Finn to settle. When they both looked at me indicating their readiness to continue, I asked Finn, “Is there anything in particular you would have liked to have understood, or maybe protected Liam from, that you would like to speak about today?” I was aware that Finn might die at any time and such a question could lead to further acknowledgement and connection that might be helpful for both Finn and Liam.

We continued talking together in this manner. Bit by bit I researched, listening out for what was important to them in their lives, their good intentions, skills, beliefs, and hopes. When we encountered acts of kindness, loyalty, love, and any virtue they might value, I asked more questions. Finn talked about his wife Beth, fatherhood, the important relationships in his life, and his work.

Twenty minutes later, Finn signaled a wish to change the direction of our conversation. “It’s all been taken away, Sasha. Bit by bit. I was an active person with a full life. Now all I’m left with is this terrible sickness.”

Exploring the Impact of Finn’s Illness

Finn seemed to welcome the opportunity to talk. “I’m fainting every day, and this pain…” Without seeming to know what he did, Finn held his ribs. He was clearly uncomfortable but carried on speaking though hopelessness seemed to hover nearby as he spoke. “I never have any energy and I feel so sick I don’t feel like doing anything anyway. I’m so nauseated I can’t eat, or not much. Nothing tastes good. I can’t even sleep and I’m not nice to be with. Irritable. I want to die. I’ve had enough. I want to die.”

He sighed but the reflective pause was denied him as the next moment he coughed and choked, gasping as his face became greyer with every minute. Liam immediately bustled away to get some medication while I stayed providing companionship as Finn struggled to breathe. It took 10 minutes for the medication to settle Finn’s breathing, and longer for him to relax.

Once Finn was comfortable again and his breathing had eased, Liam reluctantly explained that he needed to go. There was medication to pick up and other jobs to do. I thought about the extra work and expense that often came along when someone is very sick.

The front door shut noisily a few minutes later. Finn and I were alone in the quietness of the house.

“You were speaking of how each part of your life is being taken away bit by bit from you and you said you’d had enough and want to die. Would you mind if I asked you a few questions about that?”

“Go ahead,” Finn replied, and I noted the warmth that had become increasingly present in his voice.

“Is there anything in particular that has been taken away that leads to this sense of having enough and wanting to die?”

Finn spoke with energy as he confided, “It’s all of it but mainly that I feel so awful. I wish I’d hurry up and die but I keep waking up every morning and another day starts.”

I tried to convey care in my tone as I responded, “Would you mind explaining a bit more of what you mean when you speak of wishing you would ‘hurry up and die?’”

Finn sighed. “I want to go to bed and not wake up in the morning. Tonight preferably. Every day is a struggle.”

“Could you help me understand what your day-to-day life is like, Finn? Would you be kind enough to walk me through a typical day for you perhaps… so that I can better understand a little of what this struggle is like for you to live with?” I tried to shrink my question about the struggle Finn was experiencing into a more manageable size by offering a time frame, so it wasn’t overwhelming.

Finn shared with me his daily routines. As I listened, I could easily empathise with why he might be feeling like he’d had enough. The effects of being unwell sounded exhausting. Hearing about Finn’s day-to-day life allowed me to gather some detail, and as he talked, I asked him how he responded to each difficulty or symptom he encountered. I noted how eagerly he spoke to me in spite of the fatigue he was managing and the topic of conversation and wondered if he’d had the chance to speak of his efforts in response to the difficulties.

When a pause occurred in the conversation, I checked with him, “How are we going with this conversation, Finn? Are we talking about what you hoped we might, or have I taken us off track?”

Finn relaxed back in his chair. “It’s actually a relief to talk about it, Sasha. I don’t want to worry Liam and it’s different saying it out loud somehow.” I wasn’t surprised by Finn saying that he didn’t want to worry Liam. People I meet often want to protect those they love from the worst of their experience.

“Finn, how would you describe the changes you’ve had to make to your life as a result of this sickness?”

Finn picked at his cardigan meditatively as he considered my question. “It happened gradually. When I first got sick, the dialysis really helped. I felt good and I could enjoy being outside and in the garden. I was able to keep working for quite a few years. But now, I feel terrible all the time. It’s been all downhill. I can’t work of course. I can’t do anything. Liam cooks for me and I have help showering. Last week I started falling. That’s on top of the fainting. And of course, I have to go out to dialysis three times a week. That’s always a huge effort.”

“Could you teach me about your experience of dialysis?” I asked, wondering what it was like for him.

“A taxi comes and picks me up ‘cause Liam and Pete are at work. It takes me to the hospital. All the people having dialysis are in a special room hooked up.” Finn sighed.

A picture formed in my mind. “Do you get to know the other people there?”

“We don’t talk to each other. We just all stay on our beds there. There was one man who would talk to everyone in the room and got people chatting a little but then one day he didn’t come back. I don’t know what happened to him. People do gradually stop coming back but I don’t know exactly why. I wonder about them you know…. have they died or did they decide to stop?

“In the end it’s a bit of the same thing I suppose…” Finn sighed and his shoulders sagged. I had imagined the people all sharing their experience and learning about each other’s lives, maybe finding some support in being together. Finn’s description was a surprise and it contrasted with the stories I had heard from other people. I briefly considered what Finn had told me and thought of asking about the effects of not connecting to the other people receiving dialysis. However, I decided to take another tack which I hoped would be more useful to him.

“May I ask, what were your hopes and intentions when you decided on this routine of attending dialysis three times a week?

“I wanted to live! And I wanted to have a good quality of life…I was pretty sick then. I’d been in and out of hospital, had three operations and endless tests. Beth was alive and we wanted to be able to do things together that we’d planned….and support Liam. It seemed a really good solution at the time. I didn’t hesitate. I wanted to feel well again. The dialysis saved my life… and if I stop, I’ll die.”

I nodded solemnly to acknowledge the magnitude of what he was facing and we both paused for a moment. “…Were your hopes met by the dialysis treatment?”

Finn explained, “Yes, they were at first. I was able to do things with Beth and I felt good”.

“As the years went by, did these hopes and intentions you held for the dialysis shift or change in any way?”

Finn answered me thoughtfully. “They changed without me knowing, if you know what I mean. I got sicker as my disease progressed. I s’pose I’ve just kept on going to dialysis as I don’t want to feel so sick. But then there are side effects as well, not as bad as the disease of course, but bad enough, and the visits to the clinic take a lot of time.” He paused a moment and frowned. “It’s different now. I don’t know what to think. I want to die. Every morning I wake up and I think I’ve had enough. I can’t live like this anymore. I’d rather just not wake up one morning.”

Exploring Finn’s Wish to Die

Finn hung his head. “Well…yeah…that’s right. I know I should stop dialysis, but I can’t seem to make the decision. Yesterday I thought I was going to stop but then I couldn’t go through with it again. I’ve been doing it for months. It’s awful, not just for me. I’m putting Liam and Pete through it too. I’m letting everyone down. I’m such a coward.”

Tears filled his eyes.

I reached out, moved that he would judge himself a coward when such a decision would try most of us deeply. “Would you like to try and figure this out together?”

Finn took out a large handkerchief from a pocket in his cardigan. He dabbed his eyes with the folded hanky before slipping it back into his cardigan. “Yes, yes, that would be good,” he responded looking at me with what might have been a glimmer of hope.

I considered what might be a helpful direction to go in. I was tempted to inquire about Finn’s idea that he was a coward but reflected we might first need to carefully research his experience of decision-making. Perhaps we could unravel some of the ideas that were leading Finn to feel he was letting people down and “should stop dialysis.” He might then be able to arrive at some different ideas about himself. “Would it be OK if I asked you about your thoughts about dialysis and what you want?”

Finn nodded.

“I notice that you said you were thinking that you should stop dialysis. Could you help me understand how you came to think stopping dialysis was something you were supposed to do?”

“Lots of ways. Dr. White said he couldn’t do any more for me than what he’s doing. He said there comes a time when dialysis just doesn’t work so well anymore, and the disease has progressed too far. I know he’s worried about me.

“Last time that I was in hospital some of the ward staff talked to Liam and Pete and said I was so bad that they should try and help me stop. It’s expensive too, and I could be taking someone else’s spot. I feel so terrible, but I just can’t seem to do it.” Finn’s voice tailed off into a whisper. At the same time a pink flush appeared on his neck and began spreading up towards his face.

“It sounds like people are worried about what you are putting up with and there is quite a tide of thought towards thinking it would be a good idea to stop…May I ask you though, Finn, do you have any thoughts about how you would like to go about this last part of your life?”

“I don’t want to be like this, worrying all the time and feeling such a chicken… I don’t know…” Finn rested his head in his hands and looked down at the floor. I waited as he considered what he might want. Eventually he murmured, “I want to be enjoying my life… spend time with Liam and Pete… Quality of life I suppose. The dialysis gave me that for so long. I wanted it then, but it started to change.”

“Can you remember how it began to change?”

“Yeah. It was a few years back and I was admitted to hospital. I started to have a few doubts about it then.”

“Do you remember any experiences or thoughts that led you to having these doubts and perhaps consider that dialysis might not be completely what you wanted?” I asked, wanting to acknowledge the mixture of possibly conflicting feelings as we researched the movement in Finn’s thoughts.

“I guess as I started to have some problems and was less well. After Beth died, I had a few doubts. I started to think I might not want to prolong my life but then I had some projects on, and time kept passing. As the dialysis worked less well, I thought about it more. When I started to feel awful, even though I was having it, I wondered, ‘what was the point?’ Then I got more side effects after each dialysis session. I had to have another operation too and that made me think I might want to stop. But there was stuff to do, and it just stayed in the back of my mind.”

“Would it be OK to ask what happened to the idea that it wasn’t completely what you wanted? Did it stay with you unchanged or did it begin to change over time?”

“As I got sicker, I thought about it more and more, I suppose…now that I think about it. I didn’t know if I could keep going. I got really irritable with everyone…wasn’t nice to live with. I guess I started to think about how bad I was feeling and whether I should keep going all the time.” Mournfully he added, “I want to be able to decide to stop and I can’t.”

I didn’t make any attempt to hide my compassion for Finn from my face or my voice.

“What a terrible position to be in. If you were to describe to someone else this weighing up you have been doing of whether to continue with your life, how big of a decision would they think this was?”

“Huge. It’s the only one I’ve got!” Finn smiled wryly in spite of himself. I nodded in acknowledgement.

“As you both want to die, and at the same time, consider whether you can go on with your life, what do you take into account?”

“I guess it depends how I’m feeling. Most of the time I feel like I can’t even make it through another day I feel so bad…I decide I can’t take it anymore and won’t go to dialysis but then I change my mind again like I did yesterday.”

As I listened to Finn, I noticed that the thought of stopping dialysis seemed to be specifically linked to the feeling he couldn’t bear the symptoms he was experiencing. I decided it might be helpful to gather more information. I also wondered if introducing the idea of possible agency in Finn both “deciding” and “not deciding” to go to dialysis might be useful to him. His description of himself as a coward loomed large in my mind.

“Hmmm…Finn, would you mind walking me through how you came to decide yesterday to stop dialysis and then re-considered and decided to continue?”

“Well…I couldn’t eat yesterday the nausea was so bad. I’d been awake a lot in the night, and I was feeling so terrible. All I could do was sit in my chair. I’d had enough… It felt like I couldn’t go on. So, I decided I wouldn’t go. But then I changed my mind at the last minute again. Made me late…”

Concentrating hard I asked him, “Could you walk me through sitting in your chair to you deciding to go to dialysis?”

“I was sitting in my chair feeling so terrible I wanted to die… and then Sue, the wife of an old friend, came to the house with a cake. I couldn’t eat any of course. Then I sat in my chair. And…half an hour later I thought maybe I’d go.”

“What sort of cake did Sue bring?”

Finn raised his eyebrows. “It was a chocolate cake she’d made.”

I reflected on Sue’s kindness. “Did she make it especially for you?”

The pace of Finn’s speech quickened, “Yeah, she did. Nice person. She often pops in with my mate or sometimes on her own with some cooking and we have a chat. She’s a sympathetic woman.”

“May I ask what difference it made to you to have Sue pop in with a cake she had baked especially for you and have her stay for a bit of a chat?”

“I dunno. I guess it felt like life wasn’t so bad maybe.” Finn sat up a little straighter in his chair.

“What was it about your life in that moment that made it seem ‘not so bad?’” I asked, collecting more details.

Finn spoke with gratitude, “There are good people around. Kind people who are interested in me I s’pose. Makes me think life isn’t so bad after all.”

“How would you say feeling ‘life wasn’t so bad after all’ influenced the way you felt about going to dialysis?”

“Well…I do wish I didn’t wake up this morning but yesterday, well, I felt I could go on, that things weren’t so bad…and… so I went to dialysis,” Finn replied meditatively.

“Do you both want to die and value some of what your life gives you?”, I persisted.

Energy penetrated Finn’s voice, “Well…yeah! I never thought about it like that.”

“Would it be OK if you gave me another example of you re-deciding to continue on with your life?” I asked, intending to examine this idea further.

Finn began to give me examples of him deciding to stop dialysis and die because he felt he could no longer go on, and then finding some reason to continue on with his life. Sometimes it was a gift from someone, a kind act, a moment of respite from the symptoms he was living with, or even a phone call. I discovered that he was skilled at finding things to appreciate and reasons to continue with his life.

“Finn, do you both want to die and value some of your life?” I repeated with a smile.

He responded, “Well, yeah. It doesn’t sound like it makes sense but yeah!”

“When you start to feel overwhelmed by the symptoms of the illness or the side effects of dialysis, what happens to this valuing of your life?”

“I don’t know. I lose it… I feel overwhelmed. Then someone does something nice and I remember it again.” Finn looked up with a small smile on his face. I noticed with admiration his gratitude for the people in his life.

I was tempted to research more about this value Finn held for his life, but time was running out and he was starting to look fatigued. I made a mental note to return to it if we met again and instead decided to pursue the way he described himself.

“Finn, you described yourself earlier as a coward. Would it be OK to ask you what your understanding of a coward is?”

“Someone who runs away…is chicken and doesn’t face things,” he muttered, a bit shamefaced.

Slowly, I summarised a little of our conversation. Finn nodded as I recapped, “You’ve talked about wanting to die and deciding to stop dialysis…but then being reminded of the value you hold for your life by appreciating someone or something, and then re-deciding to continue with your life by going to dialysis. Would you describe this as running away from death — as cowardly — or is it perhaps closer to moving towards living, appreciating it, and being connected to what you hold dear?”

Finn stared at me wide eyed. He managed to stutter, “Well…yeah, my life…yeah, I’m doing that…not running away…no, not running…”

I repeated my question, offering a little more for him to consider. “Are you valuing and respecting your life even as you wish to die?” Finn nodded. “Does that valuing perhaps connect you to living and make ‘having a hand’ in the timing of your own death more difficult to contemplate than most of us could possibly imagine?”

Finn nodded again. Tears flowed down his face as he stared at me unblinking. He reached into his pocket for his handkerchief.

“I’m not a coward,” he croaked.

We sat together with Finn mopping his face with his handkerchief. He sat, no longer hunched or downcast, but upright, making eye contact with me from time to time as he continued to pat his skin dry. Every now and then his face lightened, and a small smile emerged.

In a whisper he repeated to himself as he patted the tears away, “No…I’m not a coward…”

We were coming to the end of our time together and I noticed Finn was beginning to look weary. After a few more minutes of conversation I finally checked, “Is this a good place to stop?”

“Yeah. It probably is.”

Tentatively I asked, “Would you like to meet again?”

“Oh, yes. Can you come back soon? In a few days?”

I was aware that Finn could die at any time or in the next few weeks. Time has a different meaning when someone is approaching death and that meaning has a role in shaping the gap between counselling meetings as well as the length of them. I looked up from my diary and smiled at Finn, “I’ll be back at work on Wednesday. That’s five days. How does that suit you?”

“Yeah, yeah. Come back then,” he answered hastily returning my smile.

Getting Curious About Fear

“I’m still here,” Finn stated ruefully. His voice scratched over the words as he explained, “I knew I’d go for treatment this week. I nearly couldn’t get out the door. I was vomiting and it was almost too much, but somehow I managed…your hospice doctor visited afterwards and it’s better now…”

My speech slowed to match his. “How did you know you’d go for treatment?”

Finn’s eyes twinkled. “I pretty much decided after you left last time. I figured I needed a bit more time to work things out.”

I gave a small smile in return. “What made you think that it might be helpful to give yourself a bit more time to work things out?”

Finn immediately looked serious. “I’ve been wondering…You must have seen people like me. I feel so bad now…how much worse is it going to get? I’m kind of wondering about what it might be like…you know, dying…” Finn’s voice trailed off. His face was drawn and tense. I could see a pulse at his temple moving his papery skin rapidly in and out.

I wondered if fear could be playing a role in making it difficult for Finn to know what he wanted. “Would it be helpful to talk about your wonderings about dying?”

Finn raised his chin though his voice had a tremor, “Yeah…might be.”

“Is it OK to ask which part of dying you have been wondering about?” Some people I meet with are more worried about the process of dying while for others their biggest concern may be about how family will cope or what it might mean to be no longer alive. I didn’t know where Finn’s attention was focused.

Finn drew his eyebrows together and shifted in his chair. “The dying part. It’ll all be over when I’m dead. I guess I’m wondering what it’s going to be like…might not be too good…might be painful.” He looked up at me with wide eyes.

I was aware from the hospice doctors that Finn might feel very sick when he stopped dialysis but the medical staff had also spoken of what could be done to help Finn. Dr. MacDonald had also told me that this information had been explained to Finn many times. With this in mind, I wondered if it might be helpful to draw out the narrative of what could be done to support Finn.

“What did the doctor say they could do to help you should you start to feel sick coming off dialysis?”

“She talked about one of those pumps…that make you relaxed and give you pain relief all the time…” He glanced at me as if checking this was true. I nodded in response.

Finn and I continued to talk. As we spoke, it became apparent that he was now voicing fears and considering the end of his life in a way that until now he had not been able to. Finn repeated to me the information he had been given by the doctor. As we revisited what Finn remembered it seemed to reassure him. It was as if Finn had been unable to consider and absorb the information until that moment, he uttered the information himself.

Finn rounded our discussion off with, “I’ve just got to decide and follow through with it… whichever way.”

“Would it be OK if I asked you about this desire of yours to make a decision and to follow through with it? Have I got that right?”

Finn nodded. “Yeah, that’s right. Sure.”

“What makes it important to you to decide and then follow through?” We both knew he didn’t have long to live regardless of whether he stopped dialysis or not.

I looked over at Finn who was shifting stiffly in his chair. Noticing he had more to manage than just my question, I elaborated a little, conveying in my tone as much care as possible. “If you were to die, say in your sleep having decided not to decide one way or another about going to dialysis, how would that sit with you for example?”

Mournfully, Finn intoned, “My soul would know. I’d die feeling like I’d copped out and I hadn’t looked after Liam and Pete. It’s hurting them. I have to decide one way or the other. I feel like I can’t live properly while I can’t decide. It’s with me all the time.”

“Mmm…” I empathised, my complete attention on every word. “What do you imagine it might feel like to have made a decision about what you want to do?”

Finn sighed. “Peaceful…”

“If you were to decide, how would you know if it was a decision that you would want to follow through on? That it was a decision to be acted on?”

“I guess I would know if it was my decision and I thought it was the right thing to do. Not what someone else thought was right but what I thought. I’ve been thinking about what I told you last time.”

“How would you recognise a decision that was yours and right for you?”

“I would feel it in here,” he replied, putting his hand over his heart, “…not in my head. I wouldn’t worry all the time.”

I considered asking Finn if he could envisage any steps that might take him in the direction of deciding but wondered if it might be too hard of a question, which would not be helpful. As I was pondering, Finn repositioned himself again in his chair groaning quietly with each movement. “I just feel so bad, Sasha. I’m so tired from all this. It’s gone on and on. Everything’s a struggle.” He sighed heavily.

“Which parts of the struggle are you noticing as we talk, Finn?”

“It’s the pain. I can’t seem to get away from it today,” he groaned. Rather than ask him about the pain which had already been canvased in depth by the two of us earlier, I enquired, “Finn, what keeps you going day to day when you are living with pain that you can’t get away from as well as many other challenges caused by this illness?”

“It doesn’t feel like I’ve got a choice, Sasha. I just keep on keeping on like I’ve always done.” I waited as he seemed to contemplate. A small smile crept onto Finn’s face. “There’s one thing though. See those buds there?” he said, pointing to some bulbs outside the window. “I’m waiting for them to flower.”

“What is it about waiting for the buds to flower that has you keeping on with your life?” I wondered, curious.

“You just never know exactly how they are going to flower and that moment when the petals unfold…so beautiful.” Light crept into Finn’s eyes and his brow relaxed as he talked about the plants he had delighted in nurturing most of his life. I was fascinated by his ability to appreciate beauty and asked him about it. When he had concluded I decided to research further.

“What else supports you to keep going as you manage this disease?”

Apologetically, Finn explained, “I’ve never watched much TV, but Pete and I have been watching Downton Abbey together. We both like it. I keep wondering if Edith’s going to be alright.”

I grinned. I wanted to know too!

As we talked, I reflected that there were many aspects of Finn’s life he had found a way to enjoy. As the list grew longer, I marvelled at his ability to adapt to his circumstances. If I had guessed at that moment, I would have imagined Finn would decide to continue with dialysis for as long as possible.

I finally asked him, “You have spoken of finding ways of enjoying parts of your life in spite of all that you are managing, of things you are looking forward to and times of companionship. Is there anything you’d like to add that’s important to you in the keeping on going?”

Finn screwed up his face concentrating. After a pause he said with generosity, “Well…Liam is important… and Pete his partner. I want them to be happy.”

I could see Finn was tiring. He had begun to cough, and his speech had slowed. I carefully summarised what we had covered, checking with him as I spoke. We then arranged another time to meet the following week.

As I picked up my bag and got ready to leave, I turned at the door to say a final goodbye. Finn smiled at me. In what could have been a mischievous tone, he sent me on my way with, “You know, Sasha….I have hope for my life!” His smile became a grin and I left, uplifted by the manner of his goodbye.

Deciding To Die

Five days later I sat in the morning meeting unable to focus. I heard conversations around me but they passed me by. All I could think of was the news that had greeted me when I walked in the door. Finn was in the hospice inpatient unit. He had decided to stop dialysis. Finn was dying. As the news reverberated through me, some of the staff offered their praise. They understood Finn’s decision as the right one given his poor quality of life.

“That’s good work you’ve done, Sasha. That poor man was suffering so much,” a colleague said.

The kind words didn’t ease my mind though. Dominating my thoughts was the question, “Was this what Finn truly wanted? Was it right for him?” My internal agitation made its way to the surface, and I moved restlessly in my chair. I could hardly believe Finn’s swift change of heart. “What had happened? How had he come to decide?”

I had met with many people who were considering treatment options they had been offered by their doctors. I often created spaces in which a person could discuss how they wanted to approach the end of their life. What was it that had me quite so unsure this time? Was it the rapid time over which this had all occurred? I thought about Finn saying to me, “I have hope for my life” as I had left his house only the week before. I knew I had held no preference as to what Finn should do, but what effect, if any, had our conversations had on his decision-making? I resolved to make sure Finn was doing what he truly wanted.

I almost ran downstairs to my office, checking my diary as I went. As I made my way through the hospice inpatient unit, I asked one of the nurses to enquire if Finn would like to see me. When I arrived in my office the answer was already waiting for me on the answerphone. Finn and Liam were keen to meet with me.

I knocked on the door to Finn’s room in the late morning. Finn was lying in bed in his pyjamas. His head peeped out of the bedclothes, the white of the sheets drawing my attention to his pallor.

“Hi, Finn.”

“You found me alright, then. Thought you might go to the house…” he rasped. Finn’s mouth turned up as he attempted a smile. He seemed to have forgotten that I had arranged this meeting with them only hours ago.

Liam’s eyes shone with tears as he explained, “We arrived yesterday morning. Dad’s been getting worse every day. He’s a bit confused at times. They say he’s only got a day or two maybe…”

Tentatively I asked, “Finn, do you have the energy to catch me up on events since we last met? Or would it be easier if Liam helped me out here? It seems like a lot has happened…”

Each word was an effort as Finn explained, “After I saw you, I went to dialysis and decided I’d had enough.”

My speaking seemed to slow to the pace of his. “How did you know you’d had enough?”

“It was just too difficult.” The gaps between each exchange lengthened as we responded to the limits of illness.

“May I ask what it was that became too difficult?”

“Living…when I decided to stop treatment it was like a great relief… as though a weight had been lifted off my shoulders…I was in pain all the time. I’m in the final stages…and I’d had enough. I wanted some peace.”

“What were you hoping for that some peace could give you?”

“For the last few months, I was always in pain, tired, and felt sick. I was falling over and I couldn’t breathe properly. I never got a day’s relief…” Finn paused gathering his breath. I remained silent, allowing him the time he needed to go on.

“The doctor told me it was harder to stop than to start dialysis…and I started to think about that. It’s easy to start because you think it’ll do you some good. And it does to start with. Then it gets harder and harder…to get some peace you have to feel worse first.” Finn began to cough. I waited quietly, conveying in my stillness and relaxation that I was in no hurry for him to resume the conversation. When Finn had settled, I picked up the thread again, “You’ve spoken to me of the struggle to decide. How did you move towards thinking that some peace might be more important to you than continuing on with your life?”

“I realised I couldn’t do what I wanted, I don’t have quality of life and I thought a lot about what I wanted…what was important to me…you asked me that…and I thought, ‘I want some peace.’” Finn shut his eyes underlining what he had said.

“You had some worries about this time and what it might be like. Are those worries still there, or have they changed in some way?”

“They’re different now, not so bad. The staff are helping me.” Finn looked out the door in the direction of the nurse's station. “I’ve been thinking about it for a long time, and I just thought, ‘this is enough’”

Finn tried to move up the bed but couldn’t. Indicating with his hands to Liam he didn’t want help, he settled for moving his body onto his side.

Liam answered as he watched Finn struggle but respected Finn’s request to be independent. “It was a shock. It took me a while but I understand. And it was a relief especially when we found out Dad could come into the hospice for care. Suddenly he was the person he used to be. Laughing and joking and poking fun. He was himself.”

Turning to Finn I asked, “Do you feel more yourself?”

Finn answered as if each word was weighted down by the effort it took to utter. “Yes. I was using all my energy in the fight…with the illness. It was a struggle every day. There was nothing left…Just to go to dialysis was so exhausting. It’s a relief… A total relief and now I want peace. I won’t go back to dialysis again…”

I turned to Liam to give Finn some respite from speaking. “Liam, what do you think your Dad is prioritising when he chooses peace?”

“Control over himself again. He wanted to take it back. He’s spent so long being sick, going to dialysis, taking so many pills, trying to sleep and dealing with the pain. It’s a relief for him now. And drugs have side effects. He’s more himself now.”

Finn added, “Yeah…it kind of enslaves you….” His eyes closed.

“Liam, you said that your Dad stopping dialysis was taking back control and being the person he is. Could you tell me about this person you understand your Dad to be?”

“Organised. He always liked to be in the driving seat. He is a bright, active man who always managed everything on his own. He got himself to treatment every week through all these years, did things on his own terms.”

Finn opened his eyes again and echoed, “Yeah, and I’m going out on my terms now.”

“Finn, you mentioned that ‘it kind of enslaves you,’ earlier. Could you help me to understand more of what you mean by that?”

Finn sighed. “My catheter leaked last night…everywhere. The nurses had to come and we did a big clean up. It’s not just the dialysis. It’s everything. All the problems, the treatment, the side effects. It’s all the time.”

“So much to deal with….” I murmured.

Finn responded with a long speech for someone so unwell. “I feel free now…A man came to the dialysis unit for his first treatment when I was having my dialysis the day after I saw you — what ended up being the last one. I watched him come in and I thought, ‘if it was me doing it again, I would never start.’ I was kind of shocked by myself thinking that, but I realised it’s true. I wanted to go over and tell him not to do it… but I didn’t of course. And then I thought, “What am I doing here?” and suddenly I knew I didn’t want to be. I thought it would feel like giving up, but it doesn’t…it feels right in here…” Finn moved his hand to his heart. “I am me again…and soon I will have some peace”.

As Finn spoke, I reflected that I might not ever fully understand what had allowed him to decide. I wondered if reconnecting him to a sense of his own worth or to some of his knowledge and abilities had had a role, but I would never know for sure. A slight smile emerged on Finn’s relaxed face. In that moment I could see what looked like the peace he had been describing.

I left the room after thanking Finn for sharing so much of himself and his life with me and teaching me about decision-making.

It wasn’t the last time I saw Finn though.

Two days later, I walked past Finn’s room knowing he was now close to death. Finn was alone, lying in his bed and I thought I could hear Liam’s voice in the hallway talking to a nurse. Finn invited me in with a look. Speech seemed beyond him. When I sat down by his bedside, Finn reached over to hold my hand. Willingly, I offered it to him, and he clutched it tightly. We remained silent, although I could feel what I thought of as companionship and warmth between us.

Finn lay sprawled on his back with his eyes closed. His breathing was moist, and I thought he was possibly close to death. After a time, I felt a slight pressure on my hand. “Is this it?” he whispered, seeking my confirmation he was dying.

Steadily, gently, and with all the kindness I could fold in, I slowly confirmed, “Yes…This is it.” He seemed to relax then, sinking back into his bed as if soothed. Though his hand still held mine, it had lost its tight grip.

* This article, with full references and the author’s notes, first appeared in the Journal of Contemporary Narrative Therapy, 2022, Release 2, 27-61, and is reprinted with permission of the author.  

Narrative Therapy in a Cross-Cultural Conversation with Someone Approaching Death

Acknowledgements

T?na koutou, t?na koutou, t?na koutou k?toa

Ko Ben Lomond t?ku maunga

Ko Loch Lomond t?ku moana

Ko McAllum t?ku iwi

No Kotorana ?ku t?puna, engari I haere mai ?ku t?puna ki Aotearoa nei

No reira ka mihi hoki au ki te iwi M?ori

Ko James Copeland t?ku t?puna

Ko Hamish McAllum t?ku p?pa

Ko Jan Hutchison t?ku m?ma

Ko Gavin Pilkington t?ku tane purotu

E rua ?ku tamariki ko Tim r?ua ko Ella

Ko Sasha McAllum Pilkington t?ku ingoa

No reira t?na koutou, t?na koutou

Kia ora t?tou k?toa

Thank you, Huia Swann, for your encouragement and feedback through the many iterations of this story.  

An Unexpected Beginning (1)

It was a busy morning at the hospice. I made my way into the community team’s office and was greeted with a buzz of activity. One of the nurses called me and I turned to greet her. In her hand was a referral letter.  

“Sasha, I was wondering if you would see this woman for counselling? Her name is Louise, and she has advanced lung cancer. (2) Louise is refusing all treatment. It seems someone thought she was ‘in denial’ but I saw Louise yesterday and she told me she’s ‘not having any chemo’ because she doesn’t think she’s worth it. Louise is M?ori, but she’s refused cultural support. Could you see her?” she repeated, as she handed me the letter (3).

“Of course,” I replied, disturbed by the thought that Louise didn’t feel she was worth treatment, but grateful the nurse had looked beyond the judgement that Louise was “in denial.” Before I could say any more, the nurse was summoned to the phone and with a smile, I left to call Louise.

A few days later I pulled up in a beautiful driveway. Plants nourished by an attentive hand surrounded the house in front of me. As I got out of the car, I saw a slight woman emerge into the sunlight. Her dark hair gleamed as the rays of sun caught it and, as I came closer, I saw she was smiling. Louise welcomed me warmly and, after I had removed my shoes, guided me into the house. We sat down at the kitchen table. Nearby stood a large kete (4) filled with driftwood, each piece carefully placed to reveal a story. Woven mats hung on the walls and outside I could see clusters of red berries hanging below the fronds of a nikau palm. Artistry was evident in creating this home and I looked around with admiration.

After some further introductions, Louise eased herself back in her chair and looked at me expectantly. Tentatively I responded to her silent invitation with, “People are so much more than the illness they are living with and their current situation. Would it be OK to begin, maybe, with me asking you a bit about yourself…so that I might learn a little about who and what matters to you?” (5) I didn’t name the illness as I didn’t know what language she preferred to use or how she might wish to speak about her experience.

Louise responded immediately. “Sure! I’m married to Pete and we have three children. They’re all really supportive, in and out of the house every day…”

Louise continued to share stories of her day-to-day life and I listened attentively, occasionally asking her questions so that I could learn more of what was important to her. I quickly learnt Louise was a hard worker and a committed parent. She made no mention of where she was from or her t?puna (6).

After a time, Louise paused and reached across the table to pick up a piece of paper. “Well, it’s lucky you’ve come to see me on your own.

I don’t like groups because I lie in them. I’m a liar,” she stated in a forthright tone, waving what I now realised was a support-group invitation from the hospice.

Struck by her honesty and trust in me, a stranger, I replied, “Would it be OK to ask what you mean when you say you lie?” (7) In my mind was an awareness that some truths are more easily spoken than others, and for some people it was unsafe to voice or live their truth.

Louise responded, speaking in rapid buoyant tones, “Oh, I say what I think I should in groups…but then later I discover it would have been all right if I’d said what I really thought.”

With all the respect I could convey, I replied, “What is your understanding of why you say what you think you should?”

Immediately Louise explained, “Oh, I tell a story to fit in.”

I reflected that people usually have good reasons for what they do. “What is important to you about fitting in, do you think?”

Louise sat back in her chair looking thoughtful. “I like to fit in. When I’m in a community I’m proud of it. I like belonging to clubs. I wasn’t brought up to do any sport or anything, so it means I can choose. I’m not tied to one thing.”

Curious, I responded, “Would you mind me asking… how do you go about this fitting in?”

Louise paused. “I don’t know, but I’m really good at it,” she finally said.

“Are you a flexible kind of a person?” I offered.

“Sure am.” Louise nodded.

“Which kinds of communities or clubs do you like to fit in with?” I continued.

“I take the best of what’s around. People are good to me, kind,” Louise answered, as if she couldn’t quite believe her good fortune.

“Would you say you are someone who both accepts and appreciates the generosity and care of others?” I asked, noticing her gratitude. (8)

Louise began to tell me how she appreciated homemade gifts as opposed to bought ones. She elaborated on the care and effort in the presents people made and gave to her. Homemade fudge was so much better than a box of chocolates, she explained.

“Do you see the intention behind the gift, the love maybe?” I asked. Louise nodded as if this was obvious to her.

“What do you give to people in return when you accept their gifts, noticing the care and effort that has gone into making them?” I asked, highlighting the reciprocity in the way she received gifts. (9)

“They must feel the magic, because I do,” Louise answered matter-of-factly. “People are kind,” she reiterated. “I have lung cancer. It’s an ugly cancer. I was so happy when they included me in the make-up day for women with cancer. I didn’t think they would, what with me having a dirty cancer and them all having the pretty pink kind.”

Taken aback, I responded, “Would it be OK to ask what you mean when you talk about your cancer as being dirty and theirs as a pretty pink kind?”

Louise lowered her head as she answered me. “My cancer is dirty because it’s a smoker’s cancer. It’s my own fault.”

Infusing as much respect into my voice as I could, I asked her in a quieter tone, “Would you mind me asking you some questions about how you began to smoke?” I reflected on how hard it would be to be a smoker with cancer and not afforded the support that other people living with cancer are offered. I tried to imagine being shamed at one of the worst moments in life, not allowed to feel sad or angry but being repeatedly blamed both vocally and silently.

“It was the ‘in thing’ to smoke,” Louise explained. I nodded. Louise and I both came from a time when many people smoked.

“When I was 10, 11, 12 years old, I pinched my mother’s cigarettes for a naughty puff,” she told me with a mischievous glint in her eye, evoking glimpses of childhood fun away from the surveillance of adult eyes.

“When you were 10, 11, 12 years old, do you think it was possible for you to realise the full implications of the naughty puffs?” I inquired, hoping to lessen the harsh judgement she extended towards herself alone.

“No. I didn’t realise in my teens either. It wasn’t ‘till much later when I came to live around people who didn’t smoke,” she told me.

“How do 10-, 11-, 12-year-olds come to smoke, do you think? How do they come to think it’s a good thing?” I responded.

“It’s the way I was brought up. It was a hard life. It wasn’t ‘till I started playing sport that I realised there were different ways of living, that some kids had a bed each and enough to eat. (10) My parents were hard people. They smoked and drank,” Louise conveyed with a frown.

In my head I did a few calculations. Louise would have been growing up after the Second World War when many M?ori were living in poverty. I thought about her family and wondered if Louise had a grandfather who fought in World War One. I knew of P?keh? returning servicemen who had been allocated a farm in the ballot after fighting in World War One, while my friend’s t?puna (11) who fought in the M?ori Battalion returned to discover his ancestral lands had been confiscated. There were many possible reasons for why Louise’s family experienced hardship.

“What is your understanding of how they came to be like that?” I asked.

“Maybe it’s ’cos they grew up in the Depression. (12) It was a hard life, and they worked hard and partied hard. Yeah, they were hard people,” she repeated.

“Hard lives can have people turning to cigarettes and drink to ease things, especially when there is trauma and hurt that comes with it,” I commented. “What do you make of there being cigarettes for sale when we all know they kill people?”

We pursued this line of questioning for a bit longer, with me seeking to broaden the responsibility for smoking into our societal context so that Louise wasn’t left to shoulder it entirely on her own.

However, I noticed myself beginning to labour a little in the conversation and started to wonder if I might be more interested in taking such a direction than Louise was.

So, I listened harder for what was important to her.

“Yeah, well…” Louise pondered. “I left home at 13 to get away from it all. I knew I had to get out. The beatings, the life… My fault I smoked… Miracle I survived this far. The shame of it has been with me since I’ve had children.”

“What was important to you that you knew you had to get out?” I wondered.

“I wanted to get away from the cigarettes and the booze…” Louise elaborated.

“Do you know what it was that was important to you that you wanted more from life, that you didn’t just accept the cigarettes and booze?”

“I wanted a better life and to live it,” Louise explained.

“May I ask, what sort of better life did you want?” (13)

Louise told me how she wanted a home and security. “I wanted a bed of my own and to know where I was sleeping each night,” she explained.

“What steps did you take towards getting a better life?” I inquired.

“I went white.”

The words hung in the air, heightening my awareness that I, a privileged P?keh?, sat at her table. I wondered how I was selling her short.

Louise continued, “I knew I had to leave if I was to survive, so I hung around with my white friends. When I left, I got away from a lot. Not just the cigarettes. I made sure I fitted in, and it was my ticket out.”

“Would you say fitting in saved your life?” I asked her.

“Definitely, I had to get away from the other lot.”

She watched me, seeming to wait to see how I would respond. I reflected on Louise calling her own people “the other lot.” I could hear the racist discourse ringing in my ears, inviting the harshness to be because they were M?ori, rather than taking into account the devastating effects of colonisation on generations of M?ori people.

“Could you help me understand a little more of what you mean when you say ‘the other lot?’” I inquired. (14)

“M?ori,” she replied, sounding like she was repeating something rather than truly believing it.

Louise waited, her body tense and alert.

“Colonisation has been very hard on the M?ori people,” I ventured, thinking of the decades of injustices M?ori had endured. “Do you think that the drinking and smoking and what you went through was because they were M?ori, or do you think it could have been because of the hardness of life and what it did to the family?” (15)

Louise’s shoulders dropped and she was quiet for a moment. “I’ve forgotten who I am,” she rasped sadly. (16)

Before I could respond, she ploughed on, seeming to contradict herself with what could have been growing pride in her voice. “I do all the old stuff: knitting, cooking, sewing, carpet-making. I paint.”

“Are you a creative person?” I asked her, smiling. “And the garden?”

Louise enthused about her garden.

“Are there threads of who you are in the old arts?” I asked her.

Louise considered. “Yes, I think there are.” She seemed to meditate on this for a moment, then looked me in the eye. The corners of her mouth crinkled up as a smile formed briefly. “But then I forget,” she added, looking shamefaced again.  

“Colonisation can do that to people…get in the way of being connected to who you are… Not surprising when there were laws trying to do just that,” I said sadly. (17) I reflected on the children who had been beaten in school because of laws that forbade them to speak Te Reo M?ori and the efforts to suppress M?ori cultural practices. “There can be a heavy cost when you are forced to turn ‘white’ to survive. Would it be OK to ask if there has been a cost for you?” (18) I thought about what it might be like to forget who I was. Emotion stirred in my belly.

“I don’t have a belonging,” Louise confided. “I feel I’m a betrayer.”

Deep sadness leaked into the air around us. It hovered, seeming to draw us together. We sat in silence.

After a time, Louise gradually seemed to recover, and in a bright voice she said, “You know I’m Scottish. I identify as Scottish.” I looked into her beautiful brown face, with its broad nose and dark brown eyes, framed by the sweep of almost-black hair.

I responded then, not as I would to a P?keh? with a question, but in the way of M?ori who connect through the people and the land they come from, whanaungatanga (19). I adjusted my phrasing according to shades of tikanga M?ori (20) and said, “The people I come from are Scottish. They belong to the clan of Callum. They come from the highlands of Scotland.” My intention was to tell her we were connected, and in telling her this and in the way I phrased it, I wanted to say, “I also acknowledge your M?ori side and it is beautiful,” though this was implicit.

My disclosure resonated with Louise immediately. Laughing, she jumped out of her chair and rushed off to gather photos of all her grandparents who had died long ago. She introduced me to her Scottish grandmother, whom she loved dearly. “She taught me the old arts,” Louise explained.

“Were you a willing learner?” I asked her.

“Yes, I took in what I wanted and spat out what I didn’t.”

“May I ask what you value about your M?ori side?” I inquired, appreciating that the photos were of both sides of her family.

“M?ori love fully and unconditionally, no questions asked, no grudges.”

“How do you love?” (21) I asked, hoping to make visible a thread of whakapapa. (22)

Louise proudly announced, “I love like a M?ori!”

Warmly, I responded, “Can you tell me some stories of how you show that knowledge of loving?” I wanted to strengthen Louise’s description of herself as having the ability to love fully. It stood out in contrast to her sense of not being worth chemotherapy.

Louise was off, taking centre stage. I listened, grinning, delighted by her rich and lengthy stories of such loving. I then asked her questions of how she came to learn such loving and we tracked knowledge of love through the generations in some long-overlooked stories.

“Who in your life knows that you have this knowledge and way of expressing yourself?” I asked.

“All my friends!” Louise responded enthusiastically.

“Could it be that you have captured aspects you value from both worlds with your fitting-in ability?” I asked, after a moment’s reflection. Louise embraced this possibility seemingly for the first time. Her enthusiasm bubbled. We went over her mothering and loving of her children, with Louise adding details such as “…but the car is warranted.”

“Could it be you are not a betrayer if you’ve made the best of both your M?ori and P?keh? sides?” I slipped in the word P?keh?, the M?ori word for non-M?ori, to give weight to M?ori knowledge. “You’re right, I’m not,” she told me. Then, as she thought about it, her voice firmed. “No. I have been clever; I haven’t got off-side with anyone. I have danced on both sides of the fence.” Louise smiled fully at me. It was a beautiful sight.

Smiling back, I continued, “If you were to think of yourself as a person who can dance on both sides of the fence, what difference might that make to how you are living your life?”

“Well, just everything,” she exclaimed exuberantly. Idea after idea quickly followed.

“If this ability you have to dance in two worlds was one that you kept in your mind, what might it keep you in touch with that is important to you?”

“That I’m OK. Sasha, it’s going to change my life!” Louise’s joy once again spilled over. I was overwhelmed. How generous she is, I thought.

“Do you think it will make a difference to how you live with cancer?” I asked.

A little later, I started to draw the conversation to an end, mindful that we still had more to talk about.

“Sasha, I like this talking,” Louise exclaimed, with bouncing joy. “Today I discovered I’m not a liar!” (23)

I drove back to the hospice with sadness stuck to me rather than her happiness. All I could think of was Louise…a M?ori in a sea of P?keh?. I thought of the times when I have felt apart, out of step, disconnected and the only one. I tried to take myself there, but I knew it was not the same. When I arrived back at the hospice, I wondered what I might have missed, what I didn’t ask. Later, as I reflected with Niwa, my M?ori colleague and friend, I was reminded of the bridges that friendship, love, and respect can provide.

A few days later, I heard from the nurses that Louise had decided to have treatment for her cancer. Louise later explained to me, “I felt worth it after we talked.”

When Niwa and I met with Louise and her family a few weeks later, we heard the good news she was improving. A short time of respite from the cancer beckoned.

Postscript

This story illustrates one way a counsellor might go about such a conversation. It is not the only way to respond. I carry the knowledge that I have many blind spots, especially in conversations that are cross-cultural. I am also aware that I am the recipient of the kindness and generosity of the people with whom I meet. This story does not represent a “right way” to practice but rather is written in response to a question I ask myself: “What does my commitment to the principles of Te Tiriti O Waitangi (24) look like in practice?”   

Notes

(1) For those readers interested in the use of stories to learn or teach narrative therapy see Carlson et al (2018) and Heath et al (2022). For additional examples of stories illustrating narrative therapy see Epston, 1989; Heath, 2015; Ingamells, 2014, Ingamells & Epston, 2016; Pilkington, 2014; 2016; 2021; 2022.

(2) This story was written with the permission of the person in it. All identifying information has been changed.

(3) In Aotearoa New Zealand, M?ori have a higher incidence of lung cancer and poorer survival rates than P?keh? (non-M?ori. A number of barriers to early diagnosis and treatment have been identified including access to care, engagement with specialists, communication with specialist services, and lack of culturally appropriate services (Kidd et al, 2021). Even though Louise’s lung cancer was incurable, chemotherapy would offer her the chance of improved quality of life and an extended life span.

When someone responds in ways that others don’t understand, it is common for judgements to be made from a position of “knowing best” what is right for that person. I find it more helpful to be curious about another person’s world and to try and understand what is important to them. I also want to learn what they are taking into consideration that matters to them and is restraining them from taking a particular course of action. For example, what was Louise concerned about or prioritising that she had chosen not to accept chemotherapy? Often, when I have fully inquired into what matters to a person and what they are weighing up, their decision-making process and reasons becomes clear. At other times, the questions I ask can lead them to reconsider their decision and take another path. (See Chochinov, 2022)

(4) A kete is a basket usually woven from flax. M?ori words are in common usage in Aotearoa New Zealand. I have chosen to leave such words in this text out of respect for the person in the story, and to uphold the mana of Te Reo M?ori (the M?ori language).

(5) My intention in asking this question is twofold. I wanted to get to know Louise aside from the difficulties she was living with in ways that dignified her and brought forward her preferred stories of who she was. I also wanted to create space for culturally respectful ways of getting to know each other without assuming how she might wish to go about that. A broad question such as this one creates space for Louise to answer in ways that fit for her. In some instances, I may ask a person if there is a particular way they wish to begin, in order to create space for karakia (a ritual chant or prayer) or any other ritual that may be meaningful to them. Louise’s talk and refusal of cultural support led me to think such an invitation might be uncomfortable for her. I therefore held back on this occasion knowing I could raise it another time.

Building a relationship in ways that honour and create space for possible cultural identities a person may hold is important, especially if that culture has been oppressed. Such respect has effects on what kinds of conversations are made possible and can open areas that are often overlooked. For example, acknowledgement of tikanga M?ori (M?ori cultural processes) can underpin the engagement of M?ori in treatment (Kidd et al, 2021) and can be significant in generating a relationship in which stories of suffering can be told.

It was unusual for me to have this first meeting with Louise on her own. (It was Louise’s decision to do so.) I usually meet with many different constellations of families and most often see someone who is unwell with at least one other member of their family/wh?nau. Louise introduced me to her family after this conversation and later brought different members of her wider wh?nau/family in to see me when they visited from other parts of the country.

(6) The people Louise was descended from. For some M?ori, this is an important part of forming a connection and getting to know each other.

(7) This was a significant deconstructive question in our conversation. Deconstructive questions pull apart the threads of an idea so that a person can examine them. When we take up a stance of curiosity and ask a person about the particular meaning of common words and ideas to them, new therapeutic directions can open up.

(8) As I learn more about Louise’s life, I am listening for how she goes about what is important to her and whether that way of living expresses Aristotelian “virtues” that she values, such as for example; generosity, compassion, kindness, courage and love. I gather more stories of these expressions of goodness that are valued by Louise and these stories make up the backbone of the re-authoring process (White, 2007). I am mindful that ideas of what is important and considered virtuous sit inside cultural frameworks. Such themes of what people are engaged with in their life, and the virtuous ways they go about what engages them, are called “narrative values” by the philosopher Todd May (p. 73, 2015). May says it is these stories that can give a person a sense of living meaningfully. Such identity stories that describe valued qualities of a person are very helpful at the end of life. Not only do they lend meaning to a person’s life, but they offer a way of responding to illness, treatment and dying that is not reliant on a well body. They can give a person a sense of agency at a time when they may be experiencing a lack of influence over their life (see also Pilkington, 2022).

(9) Ideas that position a person who is unwell as “only receiving” can lead them to feel a burden on others. I often inquire in detail into how a person receives the care of others and the experience they generate in the carer with the intention of highlighting the reciprocity in the relationship. The way we receive can give another person an experience of themselves as generous, kind, significant, and worthy for example.

(10) Moana Jackson vividly describes the processes of how colonisation robbed M?ori of a sense of home in their own land and what was lost. “When you take away the whenua from a people who regard themselves as tangata whenua; when you take away their ability literally to touch the mountains; if you limit their ability to dream their own dreams; if you take away the earth upon which they stood with love; then you render them homeless in the most complete sense (Jackson, 2022, para 25).” (Whenua means land and tangata whenua means people of the land.)

(11) T?puna means ancestor in the M?ori language.

(12) During the depression M?ori were harder hit than P?keh?. M?ori were often the first to lose work and were paid lower unemployment benefits than P?keh?. The situation with benefits was only rectified in 1936 (Waitangi Tribunal, 2004, p. 659).

(13) I cannot assume I know what “a better life” means to another person.

(14) My intention in asking this question was to make the racist discourse visible so that we could examine it together.

(15) Note the way I scaffold my question with a statement. Louise immediately recognised how I was positioning myself and responded. Consider the harmful impact if I had let the moment pass without addressing such an idea and one that included Louise in its judgements. We could ask, what was made possible in the conversation following these moments when I sided with her and her wh?nau against racist discourses?

(16) This is an example of how meaning can be lost in translation (Mutu, 2004). When Louise referred to who she was, she was not speaking of an individual internal construct of self but a relational self. Included in who she understood herself to be were her connections to her t?puna, her wh?nau, the whenua (land), and moana (sea). In this conversation, Louise is considering the elements of whanaungatanga that she wishes to be connected to and that have been disrupted by colonisation. I, in turn, am referring to a relational self when I reflect on what has gotten in the way of her connecting to who she is. When I asked my colleague Barbara O’Loughlin of Marut??hu and Ng?ti Hau?, to describe her understanding of who she was, she answered me, “I whakapapa to the maunga (mountains), to the moana (sea), the awa (river), to my t?puna, to my whanau and to te ao M?ori (the M?oriworld), (personal communication, November 24th, 2022)”. There is no “I” or “self” t

Providing Culturally Sensitive Narrative Therapy and EMDR to Original Peoples

Finding Strength through Connection in Counselling

We hope to help the reader understand one attempt of working in the most non-colonial way possible with the Onkwehonwe. In this story, playing a minor role, is how a settler of Irish heritage, Linda, committed to honouring the Onkwehonwe. Linda was assisted in her understanding of the Kanien'kehá:ka (Mohawk People), and in how to be helpful, by Juliette, playing the major role. Linda was Juliette’s helper/psychologist and Juliette was consulting with her.

Juliette: When I reflect on the beginning of our sessions doing NT/EMDR, I remember feeling that I would always suffer. I was unclear as to what might come of this type of therapy.

Linda: I was trying to integrate EMDR (1) into Narrative Therapy (NT) to work in a non-colonial way. EMDR uses bilateral movements to change the way memories are stored in the brain, allowing one to restructure trauma memories.

(In the work with Juliette, I asked her to reprocess negative memories and how they made her feel while trying to help her realize differences — for example, if she felt unsafe, she could try remembering experiences of feeling safe).

I tried to let you lead the way with EMDR and then answer NT questions to highlight non-problem stories. With NT (2, 3) the ethics provide a non-colonial way of working by flattening the hierarchy and being non-judgemental.

(NT works with the way people make sense of their lives with stories. Narrative therapists help people be other than what the problem stories would describe. These stories determine how we see ourselves. Narrative therapists believe that stories aren’t fixed. Problem stories pretend to be the truth, but they are not, as Maggie Carey, shared with me in a personal communication in 2018).

I am expected to write an evaluation for Kahnawà:ke Shakotiia’takehnhas Community Services-KSCS) when they refer someone to me. I use special knowledges discovered from the Tree of Life or Journey metaphor (4) as my report. People consulting can thus realize that they are not only their negative stories, but that their life stories can be retold in ways to transform their experience of life, understanding there ARE also non-problem stories.

Juliette: This experience with you would be the very foundation to what gave me the strength and encouragement to push through whatever came my way. Your compassion and technique allowed me to open to you. I could feel the beauty of your spirit.

Linda: I appreciate your comment about spirit.

Juliette: Everything happens for reason I believe. I know in my heart that the Great Spirit sent such a loving and gentle person as yourself to me. I honestly think he hand-picked you for me, since I had so much hurt and pain. I needed a sensitive, well experienced human-being.

Linda: I am drawn to NT because it suits MY spirit. It helps me be a sensitive human being for you.

Juliette: I felt very connected to you, considering your background of living off the land. We may be from diverse cultures and generations, but in some sense, we are the same.

Linda: I feel humbled that someone with your capacity to relate to nature, animals, and spirit could feel such a connection with me.

Juliette: I am the product of multi-generational trauma. With that comes many co-existing disorders. I felt no judgments with you. I could speak about my visions, dreams, and animal experiences. You were interested to hear about it. In the past we were not allowed to speak of such things for fear of being arrested or terminated. Blood memory is important in my People. Even though some of us have not directly experienced certain traumas, it is in our DNA.

Linda: I wonder if the words torture or violence might be more fitting than trauma, (inspired by Cathy Richardson’s work, [4]). If torture is in our DNA, are non-torture stories too?

Juliette: I found NT/EMDR to be immensely helpful in lifting the dark cloud that was hanging over me. It helped to open me up to even further healings. Most of all I think the way you did it and gave feedback, writing what came out of the sessions, was helpful. Three years later, I still have these notes to help me look back on how far I came.

Linda: I write notes for you to have nothing hidden. I give everyone my notes.

Juliette: I cherish the letter you gave me when we finished our sessions.

Linda: Therapeutic letters are a huge part of my work. They help consultees notice their revelations (5). I summarize changes noted in therapy. Now I often co-write letters with the person consulting, to co-construct counter-stories (6).

I love that you wrote back. I appreciate you describing me as medicine woman, mentor, and healer.

Juliette: I think what you are trying to do for Indigenous people is honourable. It is not an easy task to take on collaborating with people who have been so greatly affected by colonialism. I wonder if your background of living a simple life had anything to do with the paths you chose to take on helping people like me. I found you educated and knowledgeable in your field. You are hardworking and always striving to help others. That is a commendable characteristic to have. These qualities remind me of the seven grandfather teachings to live by: to have love, respect, truth, wisdom, honesty, bravery, and humility. You have all those qualities in your healing practices.

Linda: Wow! Thank you.

Juliette: Medicine people come in all forms with each bringing something that the client might need at that time. You were the first I had seen.

In June of 2019, three months after our sessions ended, my grandmother passed. I lost my Stepmother in a tragic accident. We lost our family pets. On July 4th, I had a hard delivery with an emergency C-section. I know that without our work, those hardships might have broken me for good.

I continued to see healers and came to terms with the fact that this will be a lifelong endeavour, considering what I have gone through.

Linda: If I could be considered to have contributed to the beginning of such a lifelong healing journey, I would feel fulfilled.

Juliette: I appreciated and found helpful that you shared some of your life story with me. That made me feel a connection. I felt I was not so alone in some life experiences. From the eating disorder I had, one thing stood out in my mind. You said, “bulimia seems a form of self-punishment.” That one sentence made me think twice about ever doing that again. Why punish myself for what others had done to me? Why give them that power? So, I never did it again.

Linda: I felt the unfairness of this.

Juliette: NT/EMDR is powerful. That helped me relook at my traumas in a different light, helping heal the little girl in me. Since then, I’ve been raising my three children. My son is now three. His name is Keenai (meaning black bear) and his Kanien’keha name is Takarihóntie (news travels fast). I was cleansed by a healer as I was under spiritual attack, which helped. I enrolled to become a traditional healer in mental health and Indigenous addictions counseling. We learn different resources and ways to help my people. We do land-based teaching where we take part in sweat ceremonies, singing our songs, making drums, etc. I kept a consistent A+ average. I am learning what was taken from my people.

Knowing who you are and where you belong is medicine. The more I learn and heal the better my confidence gets and the less the anxiety comes. I am no longer on medications.

Occasionally I need to take an anti-anxiety medication as the course can be heavy, speaking about residential schools and the many injustices that led to the situation we are in today. I have come a long way from where I was. I AM immensely proud of myself. I was told I am the medicine for my family and people.

So many people I met through this journey are medicine for the people. I consider you to be one of them. You gave me that encouragement to keep healing and advocating for my people. For that I will be forever grateful.

Linda: What you just said made me remember questions in the letter I sent you. “if we could invite your welcoming ancestors and your Creator here to be with us and we could have a conversation, how do you think they might express their pride in you?"

Juliette: They would give me a great big smile.

Linda: How would they want you to feel about the way that you were an advocate with me and about the way you have turned your life around?

Juliette: I think they would be so proud and hopeful that things are changing.

Linda: Do you think that they would be honoured?

Juliette: I know I am honouring them by healing and acknowledging their hardships, changing whatever I can to bring back what was taken from them/us.

Linda: I wonder if they might have advice about how to be even more of an advocate for your people and the land.

Juliette: I think they would tell me to be a warrior and to keep fighting for the ones who cannot.

Linda: Do you think that if you continue to speak out and be an advocate to those of your people in need, regarding how to transform a life from one of drugs and alcohol and violent partners like you have done, they would be happy to stand by your side?

Juliette: They are always by my side. I know they are happy with what I try to do.

Linda: Do you think they were at your side every day when you kept yourself safe?

Juliette: They guide me always.

Linda: Now, do you think they would be even prouder by your decision to become an Indigenous healer to those having challenges with mental health and addictions?

Juliette: They ARE proud. They guided me. They want me to help others. It is a part of our ways that if we are well, then we help those who are not so well. If I have a full plate of food and see someone with nothing, then I give them half of mine. That is the concept. Don’t let others suffer if you have the means to help; take my struggles and heal so I have that empathy to help others.

Linda: Interesting. My mother taught me with privilege comes responsibility to help those with less privilege.

Juliette: I have questions to ask. What drew your attention to helping my people and other people who have endured a terrible history?

Linda: Perhaps my mother’s teaching. Also, the stories my grandfather told of how the Irish were mistreated as they were colonized. It might be my wonderful experiences as a child and adult living on a farm and receiving community healing. Maybe, the appreciation I have of your culture bringing back community with the passion to get back to your cultural roots.

Juliette: Was there any moment in your work where you just knew you were doing what you needed to do and were in the right place?

Linda: Every day. Especially after this conversation with you. If any of the work we did together played even the smallest part in where you stand today, can you guess how proud I might feel of the work I do? I believe that you will help your people remember their roots, their strong culture, and what they can teach us non-indigenous people. If I played even the smallest part in this journey you have taken, I would know I am in the right place, doing what I need to do.

References

(1) Shapiro, F., Kaslow, F. W., & Maxfield, L. (2007). Handbook of EMDR and family therapy processes. John Wiley & Sons.

(2) White, M., & Epston, D. (1990). Externalizing the Problem In (Eds.). Narrative means to therapeutic ends. W.W. Norton & Company.

(3) Freedman, J., & Combs, G. (1996). Narrative therapy. The social construction of preferred realities. Norton.

(4) Richardson, C. (2021). Facing the Mountain: Indigenous healing in the shadow of colonialism. Charlton Publishing,

(5) Denborough, D. (2014). Retelling the stories of our lives: Everyday narrative therapy to draw inspiration and transform experience. W.W. Norton & Company.

(6) Ingamells, K. (2016). Learning how to counter-story in narrative therapy (with David Epston and Wilbur the warrior. Journal of Systemic Therapies, Vol. 35, No. 4, 58–71.

(7) McAllum Pickington, S., (2018) Writing narrative therapeutic letters: Gathering, recording and performing lost stories. Journal of Narrative Family Therapy: Special Release 20-48.  

Makungu Akinyela on Testimony and the Mattering of Black Therapy

Lawrence Rubin: Hello, Makungu. I first became aware of your work through conversations with Drs. David Epston and Travis Heath, both of whom have worked clinically and written within the Narrative Therapy sphere. However, they've also made me aware of different approaches to narrative storytelling, including the oral tradition of West Africa, and your work. And that led me to an interest in Testimony Therapy. With that said, what is testimony therapy and what is testifying? 

Testifying and Testimony Therapy

Makungu Akinyela: Testimony Therapy is a discursive therapy, related to Solution-Focused Narrative Therapy, and any of those therapies that we think about that focus on privileging people's stories about their lives. I tell people that testimony is a narrative therapy with a small “n” because testimony and testifying come from my tradition — the Black cultural tradition, to testify. The way Black folk use it is to tell your story but also to tell the story that you want told about you, to give your testimony. It has some roots in the Black church experience. Folks who are from the South or have been to the South and maybe to a Black church, might have witnessed a testimony service or folks testifying in church where they get up and tell a story. There are parts to testifying it. Usually, a testimony starts out with what I call a doom-and-gloom story. For folks who are into Narrative Therapy, Michael White and David Epston used to call it a thin telling of the story.
testimony therapy is a discursive therapy, related to Solution-Focused Narrative Therapy, and any of those therapies that we think about that focus on privileging people's stories about their lives
So, it starts off with this real doom-and-gloom narrative that goes something like, “Well, I woke up, and the doctors told me that I had cancer and I was going to die. And I've been sick ever since and in bed and I couldn’t get up. And that’s what my life is about.” That's the doom-and-gloom telling. But then usually a testimony begins to sound like, “But if it had not been for my friend or my neighbor, who came to give me support and help…” The important thing about that testifying process — the dialogue — is in Black orality, which is that orality that we are grounded in, the oral telling of stories.
And that call and response becomes a community telling of the story. It's not just the storyteller telling the story
There's also call-and-response. As the “testifier” begins to tell that doom-and-gloom story, there is a response to the call. The “witnesses” let them know that they're listening. “Wow! Really? Well, okay. Amen. I get you.” And that call and response becomes a community telling of the story. It's not just the storyteller telling the story. The witness to the story, by engaging with the story, also helps to shape where the story goes. The testifying usually goes from doom-and-gloom to the call-and-response, and then all in the “community” begin to identify what I call the “victorious moments” in the story.

Narrative Therapy might say those victorious moments contradict the thin telling of the story. And as you get to those victorious moments — if it were in a church ceremony, as people begin to give that feedback, that response to the call — they begin to say things like, “Yeah, it wasn't so bad. It was good.” And then people might start seeing the blessings in their lives in the middle of the doom-and-gloom.

The story begins to become a little stronger and a little more positive. By the time the story finishes and all have experienced victorious moments, transformation has happened, and the testimony becomes, “This is the story that I want people to have of me. This is the story that I want.” It uses narrative ideas, and for folks who are familiar with Narrative Therapy, the preferred outcomes have replaced the doom-and-gloom, thin story.

the critique that testimony gives to narrative therapy is that all storytelling and all ways of telling stories are not grounded in the metaphor of literacy
The important thing about testimony therapy is that it is a discursive therapy. I consider it a narrative therapy in the sense that it's a storytelling therapy. I agree with the narrative therapist, that people use stories to constitute their lives, to describe and explain the meaning of their lives. The critique that testimony gives to narrative therapy is that all storytelling and all ways of telling stories are not grounded in the metaphor of literacy. Narrative therapy, the therapy that was developed by Michael White, David Epston, and that is contributed to so strongly by all those other great people — you know, Steve Madigan, Jill Combs, and Gene Freedman – all those ways of doing narrative therapy are particularly grounded in the metaphor of literacy.   
LR: Storytelling in a linear kind of way. 

Oral Culture: A Different Kind of Listening

MA: Exactly, in very linear ways, even the metaphors that are used such as “Turning over a new page, re-authoring our lives.” So, the metaphors reflect the culture that it comes out of, which is primarily a culture whose consciousness is developed through literacy. What testimony therapy says is, “What about those people who come from cultures that are predominantly oral cultures, grounded in orality?” Like the culture of Africans from West Africa, where my folk come from, the culture of so-called African Americans who, basically, trace our lineage and heritage back to West Africa?

Our cultures are primarily oral. So, the thing that shapes our thinking, the way we talk about and think about relationships is grounded in that orality. Storytelling will look different, and the meaning that's given to the story is different. And so, within testimony therapy, rather than being grounded in the metaphor of literacy, I ground it in the metaphor of orality and musicality. Does that make sense? 

LR: As a narrative therapist but also as a client-centered therapist, I would be validating. I would be using nonverbal gestures. I'd be highlighting unique outcomes. I would be listening to elements of the client’s story, which are doom-and-gloom-centered, and asking for counter-stories. What would I be doing differently if you were my therapist in this interaction and coming from that oral tradition? Now, what would we be adding as therapists in this moment? 
MA:
I'm paying attention to the rhythm and the beat of a conversation
I'm paying attention to the rhythm and the beat of a conversation. So, it's not just the words of a conversation that are important, right? It's not just listening to the words that are coming out of your mouth. It's how the words are coming out of your mouth. I'm paying particular attention to things like the relationship between bodily space and the words, the rhythm that's created through bodily space. I'm paying attention to things like the expression on your face because those are all things that also begin to define orality.

In other words, people from oral cultures don't just use the words out of their mouth. It's the tone of the word. You know, where there might be three or four ways that I can use the same word, depending on the tone, it means something different. Also, it might be even the way I might use my body. You know, sometimes people make jokes about Black women. You know, if a Black woman is talking to you and she starts snaking her neck…what's the meaning of that? So, no matter what the words are that she's using, that body motion, the way she takes up space, begins to define the rhythm of the conversation –   

LR: So, what feedback would you be giving me in the moment?  
MA: I would be getting in rhythm with you, right?  
LR: You would be mirroring? 
MA: I might be mirroring, or I might be thinking, “Wow, he's really agitated here. And I might even slow down my rhythm, and I might begin to speak more slowly. And I might even become a little more reserved, again, because I'm believing that the rhythm and the beat of our conversation is just as important as what you're saying. I might be taking note of and become curious about what the emotional content of your speech might be at that moment, and I’d bring that out.

I'm a testimony therapist whoever I'm working with, just like narrative therapists
I was talking to a couple just the other day. Now, this couple happened to be White, but I'm a testimony therapist whoever I'm working with, just like narrative therapists. A narrative therapist, whoever they work with, they're simply using their cultural understanding to engage the work. And that's what I talk about with this. I don't believe that “techniques” in themselves fix things or do things.

But with that couple, there was a conversation going on. In this case, it's a heterosexual couple. The husband listened to the wife say something, and it felt as if she was saying he was the problem. But he was his usual calm demeanor, almost a flat effect. But he began to describe how he was resentful that she was making him into the problem. Sometimes, not always but sometimes therapists are really afraid to engage emotion, particularly “negative” emotion, right?   

LR: I'm on the edge of my seat. So, how did you manage yourself with that White couple?
MA:
one of the things I point out is that oftentimes, particularly for Black people, we're encouraged to suppress our emotions
First of all, I validated what he had to say. And then I said, “You know — ” Let's call him George. Not his name. “George, I get the feeling that you are real pissed off about right now. And I'm really appreciating that. I'm really glad that you got pissed off enough to say that.” In other words, rather than running away from the emotion, to name the emotion — because I also believe that all our emotions are important. You may have read one of my articles, and one of the things I point out is that oftentimes, particularly for Black people, we're encouraged to suppress our emotions.
LR: Especially anger. Especially anger. 
MA: Right, especially anger! You're not supposed to do that. I believe that my work as a therapist is creating a space where all emotions are safe, and all emotions can be validated and understood and experienced. Because one of the things that I'm trying to do when I'm working with my clients is — and again, these are my philosophical understanding of this work — that, under conditions of oppression or suppression, people are alienated from their emotions.

A lot of the ideas that I work with come from the psychiatrist, Frantz Fanon. And Fanon talks about alienation, which comes with colonization. And when people are alienated from their emotions, they don't feel their emotions. They don't experience their emotions. So, the emotions control them rather than them being in control of their lives. And so, a lot of the work that I do is about helping people to feel their feelings, to experience their feelings, and to dis-alienate themselves from that.   

LR: So, going back to George and his wife, you highlighted what you surmised to be George's emotional reaction, his alienation from his emotions. And you helped encourage a conversation around that. How is that different from what a good Rogerian therapist or a linear narrative therapist might do? 
MA:
one of the big complaints that I often get if I am referred a Black client, who maybe has previously had a White therapist, is the cultural uncomfortability that they felt in those relationships
That's a good question. And one of the emphases that I make is that this is not about trying to find something that on the front looks like a radically different practice. It's about worldview and understanding. One of the big complaints that I often get if I am referred a Black client, who maybe has previously had a White therapist, is the cultural uncomfortability that they felt in those relationships. It's like that person just didn't seem to get them. They say, “Well, they just sat there and listened. They didn't say anything.” You know, they didn't say anything.” Sometimes they'll even say, “They didn't tell me what to do.” And I'll say, “Well, you know, I'm not going to tell you what to do either.”

But again, it's just that interaction, that responding in those conversations in oral ways as opposed to this kind of a linear conversation. I ask you a question, and then I quietly wait for a response. And then I assess that response. “Okay.” And then I ask another question. And then I wait for a response. That's that linear conversation. Even when I'm doing supervision, I don't want therapists to try to be like me. In this field, that's what a lot of people do, particularly from our generation. You know, we used to go to those demonstrations, and we would be mesmerized by the experts.

LR: Nobody could be Albert Ellis, regardless of how hard they tried.  
MA: Yeah. But, again, when I talk about Testimony Therapy, I'm talking about a conceptualization of the work that we're doing, which is grounded in a philosophy. In a very similar way, when Michael and David began to develop Narrative Therapy, for the most part, they were grounding their therapeutic work in the philosophies of Michel Foucault, in other words, a conceptualization of the meaning of the word. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

So, you know, human interaction is human interaction whatever the culture, but there are conceptualizations that define the meaning of the interaction. There's a difference between people who come from oral cultures and, again, how stories get told and the meaning of those stories, and people who come from literary cultures.   

LR: What about when you're working with a Black client, a Black couple, a Black family who don't identify with their ancestral roots, who have no connection to the oral tradition of West Africa? Does that make a difference? 
MA:
I believe that when Black people say, “Hey, I know I'm Black. I'm Black,” that's not about having some deep sense of West African culture, because culture doesn't work like that. You see, the culture of African American people is African, I believe
I think you're asking a philosophical question. Just off the top, I say, okay, probably that couple that you're describing in that way wouldn't even be coming to see me, right? But also, I think this is about a perception of what culture is and what culture means. I believe that when Black people say, “Hey, I know I'm Black. I'm Black,” that's not about having some deep sense of West African culture, because culture doesn't work like that. You see, the culture of African American people is African, I believe.

It's African in the context of 300 years of colonization, but it's still African. And that doesn't mean that people go around every day thinking, “I'm African. I'm African.” They just are. They're being what they're being. Using Frantz Fanon once again, he once said, “A tiger doesn't have to proclaim its tiger-tude. It just is what it is.”

I described the whole idea of a Black church testimony service, right? That's African. Those are African ways of engaging. People don't name it that, but that's what it is. You know, the way that we talk, right? When we talk about Black ways of speech that we call Ebonics. I guess the more professional way is AAVE, African American Vernacular English. I'm speaking to you right now in pretty standard English. But if it wasn't you and it was somewhere else, I would be talking in Ebonics. But the thing about the way that I speak — I call it my grandmother's language — is that it’s grounded in a mixture of African and English vocabulary, but primarily West African syntax and grammar. It comes from there. 

And this gets far beyond therapy, but we've got tons of research that shows the continuities, the continuations, the relationships between the cultures of African people in the western hemisphere, who are here because of enslavement and other things, and Africans on the west coast of Africa. So, when I'm talking about culture, I'm not talking about something that's this kind of mechanical thing that is easily identifiable. I'm talking about what we understand about the nature of culture, which is constantly moving, changing, and growing. Does that make sense?  

Double Consciousness

LR: It does. Is there an implicit assumption or a presumption that an African American client, a Black client, has experienced or has internalized colonization and is living a story that really is one of adapting to those colonializing practices, whether or not they acknowledge it or feel it or resent White people?
MA:
every Black person has two souls in one dark body, an American soul, meaning White, and a Negro soul. And they're constantly fighting and struggling against each other
Absolutely. And, again, I ground my ideas in, like I said, Frantz Fanon and W. E. B. Du Bois, who was probably one of the greatest minds of the 20th Century — from the whole 20th Century because he wrote his first book in 1903, and he died in 1964. But he wrote a book called The Souls of Black Folk. In there, he defines this idea that's called double consciousness. Basically, he calls us Negros, but he says every Black person has two souls in one dark body, an American soul, meaning White, and a Negro soul. And they're constantly fighting and struggling against each other.

That's something that I could never explain probably to you because you've never been through that. But to be a Black person who is constantly doubting their Blackness but also affirming their Blackness at the same time, right? If I told you, as a little boy — we're about the same age — one of my favorite shows used to be Dennis the Menace. Remember Dennis the Menace?   

LR: I remember Dennis the Menace.  
MA: And wanting to be Dennis the Menace but also saying, “Wow. I wish I had hair like Dennis,” or, you know, “Wow. How come my mom doesn't stay home and bake cookies all the time? My mom is up working,” right? You know, “My dad doesn't wear a tie except on Sundays,” right? But it's also giving meaning to that. Or growing up — again, we're in the same age group – remember Tarzan on Sunday afternoon, the Tarzan movies?
LR: I do. Johnny Weissmuller, yep. 
MA: – and identifying with Tarzan more than the so-called natives? And, as a matter of fact, not wanting to be the native. That's the double consciousness that Du Bois talks about. Fanon calls it the zone of nonbeing.
LR: The zone of nonbeing? 
MA: And Fanon, going from Hegel's master-slave hypothesis. I don't know if you're familiar with that.
LR: Familiar only by name. 
MA: Fanon says that's about the idea of recognition and consciousness, that we become conscious of ourselves by being recognized by others. Now, that's fine, but Fanon says, in a colonial situation, the colonizer never recognizes the colonized as human, right?
LR: And the colonized don't recognize necessarily that they have been colonized. 
MA:
In the colonized relationship, the third person is always in the middle of the relationship
Sometimes. Exactly. But also, what he says, in the zone of nonbeing, the colonized is never able to have a “normal” relationship.” Because a normal relationship is this, Larry: I and thou. I see you. You see me. We recognize each other. We are conscious of each other. In the colonized relationship, the third person is always in the middle of the relationship. 

So, in describing another person, and this is using me hypothetically, I might say, “You know that guy over there? He's dark-skinned, but he's handsome.” So, in other words, there's another measuring stick to that person to help me describe that person. “You know that guy? He is really dumb for light-skinned dude.” So, there's always these relationships that are in the middle of our relationships. These are the things that affect relationships.

I'm a family therapist, right? These are the things that begin to affect relationships even when they're unspoken. And if you're not aware of the nature of those things, that's what testimony therapy brings to the forefront, that these are also things that are important to think about in these situations. When I've got a husband and wife come in, it's not just the problems they have. It's the problems they have that have been exasperated (sic) in the everyday lived experience of just being a Black person growing up in America.   

LR: Is there a presumption that all Blacks, all African Americans have this double consciousness whether they're aware of it or not? 
MA: Absolutely. Can you be Black in America and not always have this small voice in the back of your head? For Black women, the decisions about how they fix their hair is a political decision and not just a daily decision. The choice. How they do that. Decisions about how we speak and how we are heard, right? If we speak and our speech sounds too Black, or if we speak and our speech sounds too White, right?
LR: Or not white enough. 
MA: The clothes that we might choose to wear. All of those are decisions which are grounded in, “How will I be perceived?” And it's not just how I will be perceived. Also, I'm concerned about how other Black people are perceived because I'm afraid that how they're perceived also may have some effect on how I'm perceived.
LR: So, the Black person is always being evaluated. And if they're not receiving overt criticism, there is this other consciousness in which they're either comparing themselves unfavorably to other Blacks or unfavorably to Whites. So, your clients, to the one, your Black clients experience oppression whether they are conscious of it? 
MA: Even if it is not named that. There's always this question of… For instance, I was at a conference last week. And my wife and I were about to open our hotel door. I was kind of casually dressed, had a nice little jacket on. You know, my wife is super colorful and flamboyant. So, she had some colorful clothes on. There was a White family about three doors down, and I think they were locked out of their space. And we went to our door, and we opened it up, and one of the women said, “Oh, it's down here." She's telling us, “It's down here.” And we kind of looked confused. And she says, “Oh, never mind.” [laughs]
LR: They thought you were the help opening – 
MA: They thought we were the help. [laughs] You know, I wasn't dressed in any kind of uniform or anything like that. And so, now, the part of that is, you know, my wife kind of got a little… She's like, "Argh.” I said, “Look.” As I thought about it, I was like, “Wow. Why?” What was that about? Why would they assume that I was the help? What is there about me that looked like the help? I wasn't dressed like the help or anything else. But there was that quick assumption. That's what the young people call everyday microaggressions. It's like those things that make you wonder. Now, you're not quite sure, but it's, again, to always have those thoughts. It is not an unusual thing for me to have conversations with my clients, and in some way experiences like that come up in the conversation. Or ideas like that come up. And, again, this is not about people being hyper-politicized or understanding. This is the everydayness of life.
LR: Black life. 
MA: What testimony therapy is about is about having a framework to understand that and to understand the meanings of that and a framework that allows us to engage those conversations in ways that feel safe and also are not committed to having you just basically fit in. You know, our traditional training as therapists is to help people fit in. Do we really want people to fit in to that experience of life, or do we want to give them ways of challenging that and seeing themselves in more powerful ways? 

Therapy Embraces Culture

LR: Is psychotherapy with Blacks/African Americans diminished if the therapist does not take a testimony-oriented approach or that does not focus on that double consciousness?
MA:
I don't get into the wars about what approach to therapy is best
No. The reason I'm not going to say that is because I don't think just taking a testimony approach, even though I think that the things that I talk about are valid and should be dealt with, is critical because I don't get into the wars about what approach to therapy is best. But I do think that the dominant Eurocentric approaches to therapy are oppressive in that they try to force people to fit into a cultural context that is not their home. That is the subject of the book that I'm working on which is about decolonizing therapy, and that idea of decolonizing and dis-alienating the work that we do away from that kind of therapy which basically assumes Western ideas and cultural values. Eurocentric ideas are the norm and, in that context, the best way to help people's mental health is to help them better be able to fit into those norms. And so, we use those Eurocentric approaches to fit people in.
LR: I appreciate this and am very excited by this conversation, and I see how animated you’ve become — your gestures, your tone, your body movements. And I guess, if I was doing a testimony-type therapy, we would be talking about this experience between the two of us. 
MA: This is what I do in my therapy room.
LR: So, if you believe that all Black America has double consciousness, is therapy with Black folks less than good enough therapy if we don't touch on the issues of double consciousness and colonialization? Is it incomplete therapy by definition? 
MA: If we are not aware of that reality, yes! I believe that the reality of double consciousness, the zone of nonbeing, as Fanon calls it. But there has to be a consciousness of the lived experience of Blackness in the West.
LR: Living in a Black body. 
MA: – and how, as a family therapist and systemic therapist, that impacts relationships. That's always the undercurrent of relationships. Even when it's not spoken, even when it's not something that people are consciously aware of in sophisticated ways, it's impacting the way they think. 

There's always this comparison. When we talk about Black male and female gender relationships, there's always that under thing. You know, it's always racialized. When you have Black men who don't like Black women, they say specifically, “Black women ain't shit.” Black women may be thinking, “You know what? I can't stand Black men. I'm thinking about dating out of my race because these men…”

It's all of them, right? And the thing that defines them is their Blackness. That's what makes them Black. So, it defines those relationships. When people are afraid of how their kids look. “I don't want you braiding your hair like that. People are going to think you're a gangbanger or something.” 

LR: Or have “the talk” with them. 
MA: So, this lived experience shapes relationships. And, again, so th

Imagined into Agency: Goth Lolita Comes to Life

The Beginning of My Story with Misha

Misha had experienced several “failures” at therapy by the time she made up her mind to give it one last try with me. She gently and quietly summarized her hope at our first meeting.

“I want to feel something other than depressed and anxious…”

She had clearly decided to make this last effort at therapy count as she proceeded to offer a description of how she had felt compelled to “lie” to her previous therapists about the “usefulness of their suggestions” to her in living with the effects of what felt like an “all-encompassing depression” in her life. When I asked more about the purposes of such lying, Misha told me how she was too ashamed to return week after week having attempted her breathing exercises and not feeling any differently. I invited Misha to spare me the lies and instead requested she fire me immediately and without warning if I ended up setting her up to fail at our conversations. We giggled together at this and from that point, I vowed to forego any advice, suggestions, or tips for Misha’s life. Instead, I turned my efforts into learning more precisely how it was Misha had been hurt and also how she has held tightly to the idea that she has something far beyond depression: a life worth living.

In our first conversation, Misha invited me into the realm of her experience of “depression.” She spoke of the relentless “arguing” in her mind for her to finally learn to “suck it up,” “control herself,” “smile,” or else “be invisible,” and if she could not fulfill these demands, she ought to consider herself a “waste of space” and her life to have come to its end.

She spoke of the aching loneliness and strangeness she felt with the world and the people in it. She described the crushing pressures to “please others” and make “pretend appearances” in life as a “compliant and pretty girl.” Misha asked me to help her understand if she was “crazy.” How else could she come to understand the effects of a life of being neglected and the little favor she had experienced, especially at the hands of her respected parents? She told me of her sense of being an “unwanted burden” to others as a small child and her longing to be attended to in a loving way. She described her days as a child spent alone in an apartment from sunup to sundown scrounging for food and watching television. She recalled the many times her requests for company or attention were rebuffed as “complaints of a spoilt brat.” Misha told me of the time her caregivers made her role in life abundantly clear to her: at age 6, when she cried, a mirror was shoved in her face and she was admonished. “Look at yourself, you look ugly when you cry.” My heart broke for Misha upon hearing these stories of cruelty and haunting neglect.

She was born a girl

Nourished on scavenged milk and bread

Fed lies of illegitimacy

And yet she grew up

In hell – a place that whispered endlessly to her:

You don’t matter

Hell is scary and an all-alone place

It tears apart her insides

As she musters every ounce of faith

To beg — please, stop the punishment

Instead of a trip to Heaven,

She found the apartment cleared out

-The hell moved to its next phase…

“So you see,” Misha concluded, “all my life I have lived in a box and it was opened only for me to perform a perfectly good and cute girl. If the box was opened, and I happened to not be smiling to the pleasure of others, I was reprimanded to smile and not be so serious.”

“I do see, Misha. I do,” I said, feeling the sorrow of a young child who was in a horrible bind to please the whims of these adults and struggle with the confusion of these demands that left her lonely and bereft and at odds in her own skin. I was full of sadness for all that she had been deprived of when she was not treated as a precious child. But there was something intriguing about the fact that Misha did not flinch when she told the stories of her life. As a consequence, I felt my own hopefulness billowing within me as we set out to plot her escape from the box.

…She tells the truth

And she forms her words late into the night

Because she always knew how to hoard the most precious things

Like her very own life:

She knows how to lie to stay in school

She knows how to be enraged at comings and goings without explanation

She knows the pungent taste of hatred in her mouth

She knows how to rely on herself

She knows how to demand an explanation

She knows how to scream: HOW COULD YOU?

She knows she is not willing to live with disregard

She knows how it feels to be rejected by society

She knows how women are forced to make horrible choices

She knows how to shift her charms when need be

She knows how to hold onto tenderness and hints of love

She knows how to recognize soothing words

She knows how to silence taunting recollections of the past (Don’t ever talk about that again)

She knows what it feels like to live alongside angst and sorrow

She knows how to pick up the phone in the midst of darkness

In this first meeting, I came to imagine Misha’s life of invisibility, of performance pressures, and abandonment. I came to imagine and understand something of what it was like for Misha to live “shoved into a box.”

…It is tricky to spot me

Inside this box

Emerging with the masks

That will please you

And protect me

It’s a neutral costume

That has been skillfully sewn together…

I came to marvel how Misha had mustered up the energy and steadiness to walk herself up many flights of stairs to get to her university counselling center and to exclaim in her desperation, “I want to die.” I came to understand depression as a strong, argumentative voice in Misha’s life that functioned to keep her poor company inside the box. Depression’s tiresome arguments left Misha’s mind exhausted. They had diverted her from questioning the reality of the painful experiences she had endured so she might consider any sense of her own agency while navigating a lonely childhood and youth.

…It was then that we thought

Maybe the depression

Was leading her astray

With the idea that feelings

Are failures,

Tearful mirrors have been used against her after all.

But all the other stuff, it has to count, doesn’t it?

We wondered together…

“What would you say, Misha,” I asked towards the end of our first meeting, “if you and I were to set out in our conversations together to understand the makings of this box…” Misha seemed intrigued. And so, it was that we set out to understand the makings and effects of the worst of the good-girl cardboard, plastic, and paper boxes and to tell every story of the living girl and her efforts at liberation.

“She does have a logical voice and a tiny light with her in the box,” Misha ventured shyly. I was moved by her proposal! But that is not all she had as we were soon to discover together. Not by a long shot.

Beginning Leads into Our Work in The Imagination

Our lead into the realm of the imagination happened by surprise and was entirely guided by a moment of rare joy and delight on Misha’s face. It was the first time I had seen Misha smile a real smile since our first meeting, and this smile with the accompanying sarcasm in her voice set us both off for travelling far beyond boxes to another way of appearing.

At the time of this significant smile, Misha was struggling with her upcoming birthday. She told me that every year, her forthcoming birthday was a time of particularly intense arguments and accusations by depression. Depression was exacting “happiness performances” of her, as well as overwhelming her with memories of being scolded for acting like “she owned the day,” and reprimanded for not being sufficiently cheerful.

“The only time when I escaped this box…” she began shyly, but then stopped abruptly, as if embarrassed.

“The only time…?” I said, hoping to encourage her to continue speaking, holding my breath.

“Well, the only time was kind of using … makeup…”

“What do you mean?” I asked.

“Well, I remember when I was 11, I used to bring makeup to school and wear these really bright colors of eyeshadow and lipstick at school. I’d feel like such a rebel. I wiped it all off before I got home, of course… but…”

“But?” I asked, on the edge of my seat. Misha smiled at me full of mischief.

“On those days, it felt more like me…I wasn’t granted freedom to express myself at home at all, so it was these little wins that would keep me sane.”

…There are precious and hidden compartments

In the box

That represent secret freedoms

In moments when I remember

About all the selves I do not show

I impulsively

Kick myself out of the box

Like only the most daring kind of rebel would:

Full of cool piercings

Colourful lip balm and the boldest eyeshadow

Picking up little wins along the way to keep myself sane

I want the punk, the goth, the feminine frilly girl

To be expressed

One day I might march the streets

Right out there as myself

Holding placards:

ANTI-CONFORMITY

PRO-JOY

My black nails and Lolita dress

Will grab your eye

And you might wonder

How I got out of that box

But I will know it was a lifetime

Of hidden rebellions

One tiny kick at a time…

There was a growing excitement in this conversation that really captured my attention. Misha was laughing and being sarcastic; she was nearly “giddy” (Misha’s own word!) in recalling what she “got away with” with her joyous “makeup rebellion.” Here is the end of our conversation that day:

Chelsey: Given these little acts of breaking out of the box all along, how important is it for you to express yourself in these kinds of ways for your own freedom?

Misha: Umm, I mean they definitely do bring me joy. I can talk about my piercings. They are permanently there. When I see them I think they are so nice. I think I’ve learned that there is a “me” inside my head, the punk one, the frilly girly one, the one with tons of piercings, the one that likes things that aren’t the norm. I’m happy keeping her in my head. Yeah, it brings me joy. I’ve sort of learned that I’m not going to get that because society expects me to look a certain way. I can conform to that while living a fantasy in my head.

I was so delighted to witness Misha’s excitement in sharing these details of makeup and piercings and “alternative me’s.” When I remembered her smile long after she had left my office, I resolved to not let these details go, but instead to “delve” into them. I wondered where Misha’s imagination for bold expression might take us. I very much wanted to be front and center on the runway of Misha’s “expressive revolution,” and couldn’t help but wonder if this might be the very key to unlocking the “counter agent” that Misha had been shaping even from inside that box, safe from her critics.

What if her smile and the rebellion she had imagined into being at age 11 might have something to say about the pressures toward “good girl appearances?”

If she could wear daring makeup as a means of expressing the artistry and freedom of her soul at age 11, in what ways might she imagine responding to her neglect and the voice of depression now?

If the clothing one wears has the power to change the way one walks, as Misha proposed, might it also have the capacity to embolden her thoughts beyond the reaches of the punishments she had received?

If she could play with her senses in the world of color, texture, design, and movement, maybe Misha could walk right into a new kind of world.

And what would be possible for Misha to utter in this new world without depression arguing every one of her thoughts right out from underneath her?

In any case, I couldn’t let up on this realm that Misha just invited me into; there was hope in this land. I could see it in her smile.

Enter “Goth Lolita”

While holding on to Misha’s spontaneous expressions of delight and taking them as substantial guides for a possible path to walk out of misery and suffering, I trained my ears to listen to her expressions for what she could enact in this imaginary world. I heard her say, “Expressing myself brings me joy,” and “the idea that if I like it, that’s what matters.” These were entirely new ideas and words unlike the ones that “depression” had long whispered to her. “Joy” and “liking” — Misha and I coined these terms as part of her “hidden rebellion.”

…I thought of the unexpected giddiness, the unusual happiness.

An empowering action she did for the sake of possibility.

I thought of how she got away with it!

And there was this lightness that followed

It was a blue streak

Beaming with intention…

Here is the ensuing conversation that introduced us both to an imaginary character that would become our treasured guide:

Chelsey: Is it valuable to discern the parts of you that you’ve held onto, and secretly imagine yourself in these different looks…or maybe dress up in your room, but no one even sees you…have you tried that?

Misha: (with delight) Oh yeah! I know exactly what I’d wear. I’d wear black lipstick or crazy makeup…

Chelsey: The way you speak of this is so remarkable to me, Misha! You know, earlier you used the word rebellion…

Misha: (strongly) Yeah!

Chelsey: Is there something of a rebellion going on inside you that people don’t know about?

Misha: (smiling) Yeah!

Chelsey: Would it be fair to say it’s something of a protest against these restrictions that were set upon you?

Misha: Yeah.

Chelsey: Is this — the words “rebellion” or “protest” — is this a way you’ve known yourself before or is this a new idea to you?

Misha: No. I think it’s always been there since I was a little kid. I think it’s more internalized. I guess I knew I’d get in trouble or be reprimanded if I showed it. I don’t want to do that…but I’d still like to do that. While I’d still like it, I’m not going to show it. It will be my thing that I’ll keep to myself. Even if my parents accepted or tolerated it, it’s kind of like… hoarding things that are mine. When I was little, I was a tomboy, always in runners and tracksuits. They were telling me to be a pretty girl with white socks with a frill, which is funny because now I do like those things. Not dressing how they wanted me to… that was my little win. I was doing all these other things to please their demands, but I was doing this one little thing that wouldn’t get me into trouble, but it was my own.

Chelsey: Have you told anyone about this little rebellion before? I shouldn’t call it little…secret rebellion? Is that a good word? What do you want to call it? What’s a good name?

Misha: Hidden? Haha.

Chelsey: The hidden rebellion you’ve described as being internalized. In sharing it with me, is it getting out a little bit?

Misha: Yeah, parts of me think, maybe I should just do it. Almost like I should freak out and just do it.

Chelsey: You play with this in your mind?

Misha: Like, who cares.

Chelsey: Holy cow. And if you were, one morning — no, let’s say Monday, cause it’s your birthday — you were to wake up and something magical was in the air, maybe it was, when you wake up on your 26th birthday and you have this giddy feeling in your body like you described and you get out of bed and you think, “You know what, who cares, it’s my birthday, I’m just gonna do it.” What would you put on?

Misha: What would I put on?

Chelsey: Yeah.

Misha: Hmmm… I would say… a Lolita dress.

Chelsey: Do you have one? What would it look like? I don’t really know what that is… If I did, I’d be way cooler. (laughter)

Misha: It’s a Japanese alternate fashion. They look kind of like dolls, like cupcakes.

Chelsey: What color would yours be?

Misha: I’d merge them, like a Goth Lolita. Black dresses…yeah!

Chelsey: Okay, I gotta write all this down! I want to hear the rest of the outfit. We only have the dress down.

Misha: I’d wear a crazy color hair.

Chelsey: Like what? Pastel?

Misha: Yeah, pastel would be good, I like alternate color hair. Something crazy… maybe pastel blue or something, yeah.

In the above transcript, I was introduced to someone whom Misha and I would from here on out refer to as “Goth Lolita.” Goth Lolita, according to Misha, is a woman who has some very clear ideas about how she can take up some alternative ways of being in her world. Goth Lolita is an expert in doing what she wants, which was exceedingly important to Misha. For example, Goth Lolita had ideas for Misha’s birthday; she thought that Misha might go out in her dress and have a picnic in the park and that she might like to see others go by and marvel at her freedom of self-expression. I was floored to discover that Goth Lolita could so easily speak about her clear vision of a riotous birthday outing. Misha herself for the first time spoke of the word “bravery,” relating to Goth Lolita’s ideas for her life. Our conversation on that day ended like this:

Chelsey: You know what I’m noticing right now? You may not agree with this… but guess who didn’t boss around our conversation? Like this was you and me really talking, like the you you. Is this right? Do you agree that depression was shutting up while we were talking today?

Misha: Yes.

Chelsey: (smiling) Did you just rebel against depression in this conversation?

Misha: (smiling) It was freeing. Everything I’ve shared is a secret, but this is a secret that I’m not ashamed of. It doesn’t bring pain to my life. It’s something weird about me, but not messed up.

“Goth Lolita” Shows the Way

When Misha came into my office for our next meeting after her birthday, I was in for a surprise. Misha appeared with her hair dyed blue and her nails painted black. Misha laughed at my dumb-struckness and my attempts to ask about how she had gone and taken up Goth Lolita’s ideas! She was beaming as I asked questions about this “visible action” toward her invention for her much-dreaded birthday.

In addition to hair dye and nail polish, Misha also took to the page and wrote me a letter that week that outlined the “worst of her stories” of her growing-up experience. She told me she sent the letter to me with shaky hands and a beating heart and was up all night after hitting send. She had never before uttered these words to any living soul. She had dreaded feeling horrible regret and shame and perhaps even getting scolded by me or her family for her change in appearance and spirit.

However, in our conversation following these developments, Misha found herself questioning the voice of depression about its threats regarding her “shaping rights” of her own life because she did not suffer retaliation for her bold new actions. Misha wondered if this had to do with the spirit of Goth Lolita appearing by her side, the spirit of a young woman who can catch her eye in the mirror and be surprised by happiness and stand proud in her “breaking out of the box.”

…It did not lead to spirals

But to a woman

Who caught a glance of herself in the mirror

Except this time

She knew something of happiness

The depression shrivelled so small in that moment

Like a wrinkled raisin

Its power was diminished….

At this, I wondered if there was a way to speak to Goth Lolita herself. If Misha and I might travel together into the imaginary realm of Goth Lolita and her ideas, what possibilities alongside “snacks for a picnic” might we consider?

Misha and I decided to invite Goth Lolita to be interviewed during our conversation. I was attempting to learn Goth Lolita’s thoughts on Misha’s behalf, and to bolster Misha’s agency as she had already begun to bring this inner idea about an “alternate self” into the outer world through her hair, makeup, and writing down the “unspeakable.” I was wondering how Goth Lolita might lend her voice to Misha as she was stepping into these new questions, words, possibilities, and experiences in her life. I puzzled over what would happen if Misha could be witness to Goth Lolita’s thoughts on her recent efforts in living. Could this imaginary realm expand Misha’s possibilities further?

(*Note: In my study of this transcript, and on behalf of any future ventures into such imaginary realms, I found myself wishing to refine the questions I asked of Goth Lolita that day. I have included my revised questions in the following excerpt for further consideration.)

Chelsey: Goth Lolita, are there any particular words or sayings or phrases that come to mind? You don’t have to censor them…they can be horrible swears, or not, in Spanish, or not…that you would say to this shame and blame. If Misha’s voice was shaky and her mind was blanking and she needed you to speak up for her and push back, what would you actually say?

Misha: (as Goth Lolita) That there is nothing to be ashamed of who you are or what happened to you. That there was no —you didn’t have a choice, it wasn’t by your own doing. That in many ways, surviving it shows some strength or some resilience and that even though it happened, and you may never want to talk about it or acknowledge it, maybe you can take it and sort of build yourself up knowing you can overcome things that you thought you couldn’t. [PAUSE] But that girl grew up and is no longer in that situation. So, I guess she can jump out of the box and be Goth Lolita.

Chelsey: HOLD ON GOTH LOLITA! You’re saying, “Hey Misha, join me!” Is that how you’d say it?

(Chelsey, revised: Hold on Goth Lolita! Are you suggesting that Misha has lived in such a way that you would be honoured for her to escape from that box and join you? Why is it that Misha earned this spot as your companion in living? Do you have some stories coming to mind about how she has befitted such an honoured position as a co-picnic enjoyer, style-star, and freedom fighter? When did you first get the sense that Misha would one day join you and what you stand for in life?)

Misha: Sort of. Break all the barriers… whether it is you or other people have placed them around you. Whether it’s “break the box” or “jump out of the box.” I guess it’s don’t let the errors of everybody in that story hold you captive in the box.

Chelsey: I’m having a clearer picture now, Goth Lolita, of you saying these things out loud with a conviction, almost like talking to the box. I see you in your dress, like this maybe talking to this box. Is there an action you’d take, Goth Lolita? Do you extend your hand? Do you help pry open the box? What do you do as you encourage Misha to break the barriers?

(Chelsey, revised: What have you witnessed Misha doing to escape the box that she was held captive in? What kind of unboxed life was Misha reaching for when she pried open the box enough to see you standing there with your hand extended?)

Misha: I guess it’s sort of rebelling one step at a time. And maybe it is working on the things that made Misha more Goth Lolita. So, whether its Step 1: dye your hair blue, or step 2: wear black nails, find what other steps or what other actions or what other feelings can be given to Misha so that she can break out of the box, or walk out more Goth Lolita and less childhood-stuck-in-her-past-Misha.

Chelsey: And Goth Lolita! You have this idea and you have even laid it out in step form! Does this get you thinking Goth Lolita about what might be next for Misha if she were to see these steps as things that she could do or take up in her life?

Misha: It’s an overall arc of accepting her weirdness or her alternate tastes that might bring joy. It may make her more comfortable in her own skin. Maybe it’s working through her self-worth because right now there isn’t much of that.

(Chelsey revised: Are you suggesting somehow, Goth Lolita, that there might be some worth in accepting an overall arc of Misha’s weirdness? Just how much worth do you think Misha has had to hold onto in order to keep her ideas and alternate tastes alive despite the boxed life that others had in mind for her? In this overall arc do you imagine Misha’s dyed-blue hair might hold more worth than what the tab at the salon might have been?)

“Goth Lolita” Takes Back Stage While Misha Stands

This imaginary conversation with Goth Lolita as a witness to Misha’s actions made it far more difficult for the arguments of depression to dismiss Misha’s imaginative ways of responding to the narrow life proposed by the dull rules, the dress code, and the dismissal of her person. At the beginning of Goth Lolita’s companionship, Misha would always anticipate what the voice of the depression would have her believe about the insignificance of her own actions in life, but Goth Lolita served as a lively counterargument with flesh and blood and bold ideas. Misha said to me at one point: “I started this. I voiced it. This gives it a shape and physicality. There is something worth trying for in this push against the voice of depression.” Misha recalled how the arguments of depression were losing their influence in her life. She began to be curious about the criteria by which she could stand behind her actions rather than having the voice of depression and its counsel of regret and shame be the sole judge of her life. Misha started to move beyond being a model for the purposes of others to being a designer of her own future.

As an example of this reorientation, Misha shared a story of living in residence at university. She told me that historically she struggled to find meaningful connections with peers. However, when she was in university, she had developed some friendships. Misha was putting in all of her best efforts to achieve this aim. They had, to Misha’s surprise, developed a supportive back and forth when it came to studying and leisure, often going for ice cream together to unwind after exams. The voice of depression had overshadowed the friendship successes Misha had accomplished with one person’s casual comment about Misha being “weird.” Misha initially grew destitute as the depression told her she was a failure and would never have any real friends. Once we knew something about how Goth Lolita might have experienced these same events, Misha was able to evaluate her own efforts and actions as “wins” in the realm of developing connections and relating with others. Misha’s imagination had allowed her to recalibrate her own barometer toward making meaningful actions against the depression.

Misha continued taking these agentive steps when she told me more stories of her life. Now they included tender memories of her and her family creating art together and caring for one another, not just the harsh tales of mistreatment. Her eyes, even when focused on the past, were able to see a fuller picture of how she was living. This made it possible for her to reinvigorate joyfulness and connection and hold it close to her heart for the future she was imagining.

These steps amounted to a grand leap in sharing the truth of her inner world after feeling very struck down by arguments with her mother who had trouble understanding exactly what Misha had been up against. In these arguments Misha had, for the first time, attempted to share her confusion about her mother’s attempts at “tough love” throughout her life. This argument felt insurmountable to Misha, however, and she considered cutting her mom out of her life as she had done many times before. But upon consideration of her new ways of expression, Misha wrote a letter to her mother outlining what it is like to live with the voice of depression in her mind and shared all the ways she had tried to be a perfect daughter and

Spitting Truth from My Soul: A Case Story of Rapping, Probation, and the Narrative Practices- Part II

Recapitulation

This is the second part of a two-part case story that focuses on a 24-year-old African American client named Ray who was referred to me (TH) by probation services. In this brief introduction I will try to summarize what transpired in Part I. Whenever possible, I will attempt to provide phrases or “pieces” of Ray’s language so the reader can begin to get a “feel” for him and our work.

Rap music was introduced as an entry point to our work. After our first session Ray could probably best be described as equal parts skeptical and intrigued. He enjoyed sharing rap songs that were meaningful to him as well as having the opportunity to create rhymes of his own.

We rather quickly discussed ways in which rap music was misunderstood (“Adults throughout my whole life telling me it’s violent and the music of the devil . . .”) and how others could not or were not willing to hear the important messages that can be contained within certain songs. We proposed a pair of magic headphones (“Magic Beats”) as a way to help those who would not listen begin to hear rap’s message. This idea will prove particularly important as our conversation progresses in Part II.

As our first conversation continued, we started exploring the sociopolitical implications of rap music and hip-hop culture. We framed rap as a kind of philosophy (“But without all the white cats . . .”) that served as a voice for the voiceless. We also stumbled across a connection between Ray’s grandmother and rap music (“I’m rapping about the same s**t she’s saying but in my own way . . .”). This struck him as perplexing (“That’s crazy bro . . .”) and also enlightening (“I never thought of it like that . . .”) given the disdain she had expressed for rap music throughout his youth. Our first meeting came to a close by having a conversation about our conversation.

We explored the difference between just talking and rapping, to which Ray responded, “It’s like when I rhyme . . . I spit truth from my soul.” We both agreed that inviting rap to our future meetings would be of benefit. More specifically, we discovered that rapping might serve as a pathway to liberation (“Remove the shackles from my soul . . .”). I invited Ray to consider composing a rhyme that paints the part of the picture that probation services doesn’t see. He responded enthusiastically but seemingly nervous that probation services would discover the way we were working and somehow veto it (“You’re the weirdest shrink they have ever sent me to. Not weird like bad, not bad at all, but does probation know you do this?”). We then decided that calling our work together a “studio session” was a better fit than therapy.

Ray picked up in our second meeting directly where he left off in the first. He came prepared with a rhyme that would be the foundation of a counter-story. He noted in that rhyme the importance of challenging rules (“Just because these are the rules you play the game by doesn’t mean these are the only rules . . .”). The conversation evolved into looking at whether or not Ray had found some ways of challenging rules more effectively than others. He then traced the relationship between rap and anger (“It’s like my anger would leave my mouth through my rhymes . . .”). Part I concluded with a pensive Ray searching for a rhyme that captured this most important function of rap music as an antidote to anger and aggression. The following rhyme picks up where our original story concluded.

An Antidote to Anger

Judicial system mad puzzling

DA presents two options
Jail cell or rat on my cousin
Death sentence if I’m released
Seen on the streets
All free
They’ll be like “who you dropped a dime on g’”
Obscene language make them ends
So I’m squeezing my pen
That’s mightier than the blade
Not trying to see death
Strategize and not be so impulsive
Quiet cats survive
Bullets for the ones boasting
Friday night drive on Colfax
Enjoying the madness
That was created by fascists
Reagan-nomics took our tools away it’s so savage
Regardless of politics
This my Mile High life
Shout out to my bail bonds-man.

Travis (T): What speaks to you in this verse?

Ray (R): The line, ‘So I’m squeezing my pen, that’s mightier than the blade,’ is the main one. I mean, the rhyme talks about the stress, the penitentiary, but then boom (begins rapping) So I’m squeezing my pen, that’s mightier than the blade.

T: Did you fight with your pen instead of your blade before you ended up on probation?

R: Usually, yes. But there are these times where I just lost it.

T: The pen was knocked out of your hand?

R: Yeah, you could say that.

T: What happens when the pen gets knocked out of your hand?

R: It’s like I’m a different person. I do these things I know are stupid, but I just do them, anyway. It makes no damn sense.

T: But when you have the pen?

R: I can do anything.

T: Would it be accurate to say that when you have the pen you can spit truth like you said in our last meeting and that’s when Ray The Philosopher comes out (I uttered the term Ray The Philosopher without giving it much thought and certainly without an understanding of how it would later be adopted in our work together)?

R: For sure. That’s kind of a dope name right there, brother… Ray The Philosopher (said with gusto)

T: Do many people in your life know Ray The philosopher?

R: My homies do.

T: Is there anyone else you can think of?

R: No, not really.

T: What do you think would happen if we introduced more people in your life to Ray The Philosopher and his rhymes?

R: I think it would be good, but like I said last time, nobody wants to listen. They think rap is corrupt.

T: What if we were to inform them that when you can think ahead and fight with your pen through rap it helps you avoid anger and thus probation? Do you think they know this about you?

R: Nah, they don’t know that. I still don’t know if they would hear me.

T: Even if they knew that it would help you avoid future relationships with probation, they still wouldn’t hear you?

R: (silence for 15-20 seconds) Maybe. I mean, I hope so.

T: What do you think your grandmother would think about rap as a way to fight with your pen instead of your fists? Have you spoken with her about how you and rap have this kind of relationship?

R: No. I’ve never spoken much about my rhymes at all with my grandmother. I’ve just always known how much she hates rap. Like if I bring it up, I know she’s going to roll her eyes at me.

T: Do you think the kind of rap she hates and the kind of rap you’re tight with when you’re fighting with your pen are different?

R: Oh, yeah! She thinks rap music is just about cursing, talking about hoes and drugs and shit like that.

T: If she truly knew how rap music unshackled your soul do you think she might begin to have a change of heart?

R: Yeah, I still just don’t know if she would listen, though.

T: What if we created a space in here where you could perform for her, and we constructed a marquee (points upward) that lights up and says Ray The Philosopher!?!

R: (Laughs)

T: If you rapped for her and she could feel the words instead of just hearing them, what do you think might happen?

R: I really don’t know.

T: Would you say that your grandmother’s wisdom finds its way into your rhymes?

R: Oh yeah, I know it’s in there a lot.

T: Can you think of an example in the rhyme that you shared with me at the beginning of our conversation today?

R: My grandmother has always wanted the best for me. That’s why I started out that first line with her. You know, (begins rapping) Grandma said I should reconsider law school. I was sampling from another rhyme that starts with mama instead of grandma, but it’s because I know she wants the best for me and that’s why she’s always bothering me about school.

The thing is, she also taught me to be street smart, which is why I like to challenge the whole foundation that student loans and shit are built upon. It’s like a scam for poor people. You know what I mean? I would have never thought about shit in these terms if it weren’t for her. I would have never looked deeper. And that’s what that second verse is about, too, with people on TV commercials acting like they can save your life and shit. You ever watched TV at like 2:00am?

T: I have a few times, yes.

R: Then you know what I mean, right? There’s these cats trying to sell hocus-pocus. They are saying shit like, (changes voice to that of a highly embellished television salesperson) “For 20 years now I’ve been helping people change their lives. For only three easy payments of $99.95 you can get the 7 secrets that will make you rich. Order now!”

(Both bellowing with laughter)

T: I didn’t know you were an actor, too, Ray?!

R: (Laughs)

T: In all seriousness, if I’m hearing you right, Ray, your grandmother’s wisdom is everywhere in your rhymes, and she doesn’t even know it?

R: Yeah, I guess you’re right.

T: Do you think we might be able to invite your grandmother to see, hear, and feel that rap can be a philosophy of street smarts and wisdom and not just a form of music that young people like to listen to?

R: I think so.

T: If we are successful do you think this would be sort of like putting the Magic Beats we talked about on your grandmother’s ears?

R: Yeah, but the rhymes will need to be just right.

T: Perhaps we should take some time in here to get them where you want them?

R: For sure.

Turn Up the Sound

Ray and I spent our next two conversations focused on taking the various rhymes rapped during our first two meetings and worked on creating a mega-anthology. It was a scintillating process that saw KRS-ONE, Tupac Shakur, and other artists rapping in unison through Ray’s mouth. I brought in my laptop computer to help with the process, and Ray made it do things I did not know it was capable of.

He turned my computer, and my office along with it, into a fully functioning recording studio. I even created a marquee (clearly the work of a second-rate artist) that read “Ray The Philosopher,” which always led to a hearty chuckle from Ray every time I hung it up at the beginning of our meetings.

“Yo, Travis. Turn up the sound a little bit,” Ray said as I scurried over to the computer. “Yeah, that’s good right there,” he reassured me making an ‘a-ok’ sign with the finger and thumb on his right hand. I watched, often in awe, as Ray meticulously perfected his craft. He was locked in his element, and I was an enthusiastic fellow traveler.

“Nah, we need to change up that baseline a little bit,” he said shaking his head and taking a swig of water. “It doesn’t quite pop. I need more time.”

I have had the great fortune of working on similar projects with people who had sought my counsel in the past, but this was among the most ambitious ventures I had encountered. As we started to make our way toward the end of our fourth session together, I started to wonder if perhaps we had bitten off more than we could chew. Now I knew that Ray had similar feelings. It wasn’t as though we hadn’t been aware of time but more like we had lost ourselves in it.

T: Ray, the last thing I want to do is rush you through this process.

R: But I only get to come here one more time.

T: Well, I know that’s the initial agreement you had with probation, but I can see you as many times as we think would be best.

R: What about you, though? I don’t want to be a leach?

T: What do you mean?

R: You’ve got to get paid, man. This ain’t no charity. This is your livelihood, bro.

T: I really appreciate you thinking of me, Ray. Tell you what, how about I give probation a call and tell them a bit about the situation and see if we can get some more time? In the past this is something they have often been willing to do.

R: What if they’re not?

T: Then we will see the work through to its completion anyway, Ray. As long as it takes. This is just too important. Don’t you agree? Besides, I have been thinking about something. Would it be okay if I shared it with you?

R: Of course.

T: I know your grandmother is going to come in at the conclusion of our work to celebrate with us. I was wondering what you thought about perhaps inviting other people to meet Ray The Philosopher? Is there anyone else you who you think it might be good to invite to wear the Magic Beats?

R: Hmm… I haven’t really though about it too much.

T: I’m just thinking out loud here, Ray, so stop me if this doesn’t make sense, okay?

R: Okay.

T: What do you think would happen if your probation officer were introduced to this idea of you fighting with your pen instead of your fists?

R: I mean, I’m sure he would like it. He just wants me to keep my hands clean for the next year.

T: What do you think would be the consequences of us not bringing him up to speed on this?

R: I don’t know.

T: As it stands now, do you think your PO views you as someone who is going to fight with his fists and get into trouble again or someone who is going to keep his hands clean?

R: (Laughs cynically) I damn sure don’t think he trusts me. I think he believes I’m going to be out gang-banging (a hip-hop term for engaging in violent acts as a member of a street gang), and I don’t even do that shit.

T: How has it come to be that you don’t even do that shit and yet your PO thinks you do? Do you think we should try and set the record straight and let him know how rap allows you to fight with your pen instead of your fists?

R: But he’s going to give me that same old bullshit about how I don’t take responsibility and blah, blah, blah (uses his right hand to imitate a talking mouth).

T: Do you think if you rapped for him and let him know how rap can strangle the advances of anger and aggression, he would look at you as more likely to keep your hands clean or less likely?

R: (Pauses for 10-15 seconds) More likely to keep my hands clean.

T: What do you think the consequences would be if we weren’t to set the record straight?

R: Yeah, I get what you’re saying now.

T: How do you mean?

R: Like, it’s not enough for just me to come up with this plan if he still thinks about me a certain way… like I’m a criminal.

T: Do you believe this is an opportunity for Ray The Philosopher to replace the other names that have been placed on you in the past like criminal?

R: Now that you mention it, yeah, I guess so.

T: Would you say that sometimes your PO is a tough nut to crack?

R: C’mon, now! That dude is like impossible to crack.

T: Do you think then that we might have to prove to him just how effective fighting with your pen can be?

R: Sure, but how the hell are we going to do that?

T: How long have you seen me for now, Ray?

R: (Pauses to think) Like about a month.

T: I know this is a tricky question because I’m asking you to guess what another person might be feeling, but do you have any sense for how your PO would say this last month has been for you.

R: I actually talked to him about this last week. I’ve been squeaky clean. Not one single issue, homie.

T: What do you think he would have told me about how things were going if I had talked to him prior to you coming to see me?

R: Man, he was always in my grill about shit saying I was defiant, I was going to go to jail, and this and that.

T: Fair to say then that he believes things are going better now?

R: No doubt.

T: Has one month been enough to convince him that you are on the right track?

R: Hell no! It’s like he’s just waiting for me to fuck up.

T: How many months do you think it might take to convince him that you are on the right track and ready to end your relationship with probation?

R: I mean, I still have over a year of this.

T: Do you think it will take all of that time to show him just how effective fighting with your pen can be?

R: Probably so.

T: What if we were to invite him in here, bring him up to speed on your philosophy of fighting with your pen and not your fists, and then make a commitment to this going forward?

R: I don’t know if he’ll believe it.

T: You make a good point. Like you’ve told me, he can be a bit stubborn and so can your grandmother! Even as tough as it is going to be, are you willing to fight with your pen and prove to your grandmother, your family, and your PO the true character of Ray The Philosopher? You already have one-month under your belt!

Ray paused after my question. I started to wonder if perhaps my query had pushed him a bit too far. His face remained stoic as the silence continued beyond 30 seconds. Just as I started to ponder my next move fearing I had lost him, he replied, “I’m down (a hip-hop term voicing agreement).”

After the conclusion of our fourth session Ray and I agreed that it would be good to check in with his PO together. We decided that in addition to talking about the need for more sessions, we would also let his PO know (a signed release was already in place) about how Ray had been fighting with his pen instead of his fists. The PO acknowledged that things were going better the past month, but he remained skeptical. He agreed to get payment covered for half of every session for the next month. The way the following month was structured it would afford us five more weekly meetings.

Two Different Stories

Ray seemed somewhat relieved that more sessions had been granted but also a little bit ticked that his PO was still unconvinced. He felt his PO was “playing games” and “testing me.”

Our next three meetings were spent wrestling with these feelings. Ray began discovering that restoring his reputation burned nearly as many calories as he was taking in. Instead of being consumed by anger towards his PO, Ray stayed true to his word to fight with his pen. He remixed a song by the artist Common:

We should name the block poverty
That rock stole our humanity
You hear that glock pop?
For dough we perform beastiality
“Fucking each other over
What you expect they animals”
Then act like they the ones offended
When TMZ release the audio
If life’s a game
They withhold that playbook
But playas make that scratch
We get the itch
Run your shit
This a jook
Or a lick
See that’s a stick-up if you down with my click
We starving in the darkness
Force upon us they man made eclipse
Is it a curse?
Mad poisons in our blood?
My pops tried to disinfect it
Chugging that rum
And I do the same (word?)
Like father like son.

Ray no longer waited for me to inquire about the lyrics. He would deconstruct them now almost as a natural part of our process. “See, this is what he (probation officer) doesn’t understand. I was born behind the god damn eight-ball. No father. Poor. I’ve always had to hustle to survive. He doesn’t know my pain. Does he even care to know it? But that don’t even matter. Is he testing me? I’m going to pass that test.”

Ray began rapping the second verse from this song:

To my reflection I scribed
What I be feeling inside
Can’t leave it buried in the dirt
Gotta breathe it and give it life
My neighborhood taught us no self-control
That boom-bap made us feel like it’s our right to explode
No positive role-model
The hustlers were our fathers
Rappers instructed us to spit rhymes
And don’t bother
With the life of an outlaw
It’s a trick to keep us blind
And deny our title as God
Preventing our rise
They been doing this for centuries
Stolen lands from our North and South American fam
Jews burnt
Japanese thrown in determent camps
Hatred can hide
Right in front of our eyes
But I flipped that same hate
Used it as fuel to survive
I’m of a mind that believes love will conquer hate
They be seeing black and white
While my crew is dazed by all the gray
So gather around the fire
Light it up
Continue the cipher
Cause in the darkness of nights
Our stars still shine brighter
This is my dream!

T: Ray, are there two different stories in the two beats you have shared with me today?

R: Yeah, the first one is the pain and strife. The second is what happens when I look ahead and fight with my pen.

T: Pain and strife and fighting with your pen… both of those are rhymes that you brought into our work earlier, right?

R: Yep.

T: Would it be right to say then that these last two verses are a sort of remix of all of the beats we’ve heard in here so far?

R: Pretty much.

T: Would these verses be good to share with the folks who join us for our final celebration of the work you’ve accomplished in here?

R: Yeah, but I might tweak them throw in a couple of other verses from different rhymes to get it just where I want it.

Our second to last session was a dress rehearsal. Ray came with the beats he wanted to perform and refined them. We also talked about how he wanted our final celebration to commence, what would happen, and who to invite.

He joked that it “would be kind of like a block party, but where a therapist lives in the house on the corner.” We also decided that those in attendance would have an opportunity to voice their support of Ray’s efforts over the past two months as well as hopes and dreams for the future. As this session came to a close I could detect a nervousness that was following Ray.

T: Ray, I could be wrong here, but I am wondering if some nervousness is hanging with us right now.

R: Yeah, I guess so.

T: Do you mind if I ask you what kind of nervousness it is? People I’ve worked with before have taught me that there are different kinds? Do you know what I mean?

R: You know, I’m not like a professional rapper or anything like that, but I’ve performed in my neighborhood before. It feels like that. Like, you think you have a good rhyme, but you never know for sure until you get on stage and the crowd is feelin’ it.

T: What gives you confidence that the rhyme you have created in our work together will deliver just the message you hoped it would?

R: I put my whole heart and soul into it. I didn’t leave one drop.

T: Do you think the people who are here with us next time will feel your heart and soul coming out through your lyrics?

R: (Pauses for 10 seconds or so) I really think so.

T: Do you remember when I first asked you about what would happen if you rapped for your grandmother or your probation officer?

R: Yeah, I said they wouldn’t hear it.

T: Are you saying that you feel differently about that now?

R: Yeah, I guess so.

T: What would you say has shifted?

R: These rhymes are me but just in lyrical form.

T: And you don't believe your grandmother or those who love and care about you would reject this gift that is a lyrical manifestation of you?

R: No, my grandmother always tells me that she’ll never run out of love for me.

T: Hey, something just struck me, Ray. Would it be okay if I share it with you?

R: For sure.

T: I wonder if you just discovered the Magic Beats?

R: What do you mean?

T: Do you believe that when you create a rhyme that fully represents you and comes from the deepest depths of your soul that even those who don’t prefer rap music could still hear it?

R: (A smile overwhelmed the now dwindling doubt on his face as he nodded affirmatively)

T: Ray! This is great! What an incredible discovery you have made!

Ray often tried to minimize any expressions of emotion, but even he smiled loudly at this development. In our excitement we almost instinctively exchanged daps (gesture similar to a handshake) with our right hands before giving one another a quick hug. With this we had established an unspoken agreement that we were ready for Ray’s performance and celebration next week.

A Celebration of Hope

Ray and I agreed to meet about a half an hour before everyone else to prepare the room for the celebration. As we moved tables and chairs and geared up the laptop computer everything was coming together. “Alright, I think we’ve got it,” I said looking in Ray’s direction. He then shook his head ‘no’ and looked upward to indicate to me to direct my gaze towards the ceiling. “What?” I said with a perplexed look.

He nodded upward once more. I stared skyward still trying to decipher what Ray was communicating. Then I realized that in my haste to make sure there were enough chairs for everyone I had forgotten to hang up the marquee. Like a dog with his tail between his legs I went back to my desk in the back room and removed from the top drawer the “Ray The Philosopher” marquee. I dashed back out to the main office and hung it up in its customary location. “Now we got it,” Ray asserted.

Soon, Ray’s grandmother, his sister, and a few other people from his neighborhood began making their way into the office. There was a sort of nervous excitement that filled the room. Lost in conversation, time had escaped me. I

reached into my pocket and pulled out my phone to take a quick look at the time. In doing so I noticed a message was waiting for me from Ray’s probation officer. Oh no, I thought to myself. He had left me a message stating that something had come up and he wasn’t going to be able to make it. Just as I was about to hold the phone to my ear to listen to it, he lumbered through the front door. “Sorry I’m late,” he said. “Did you get my message? I got caught up with a few things at the office.”

Relieved that everyone was now here, I looked at Ray to see if he was ready to go. Ray had asked that I start by saying a few words to give folks a sense of what today’s meeting was all about. After welcoming everyone and thanking them for attending, I began discussing a bit about Ray’s journey.

“During our two months together, Ray has reaffirmed how rap music can be an ally in helping him be the person he wants to be. He has composed a series of beats he would like to perform for you today. Ray suggested that

Spitting Truth from My Soul: A Case Story of Rapping, Probation, and the Narrative Practices- Part I

The Rap That Binds

“This kid really doesn’t get it,” a clearly frustrated voice blared so loudly that I moved the phone’s speaker a couple of inches from my ear to avoid any future hearing loss.

“He just won’t take any responsibility for his actions, and he doesn't give a shit…and he has 16 more months until he’s off probation! I just don’t think he’s going to make it. I don’t even think you want this one!” I recognized this voice as that of a probation supervisor I had worked with a number of times over the years, but never had I heard frustration get the better of him in such an obvious way. “I’d be happy to see him,” I said. “Send him my way.”

When I put the phone down, I wondered if my enthusiasm might have been misplaced and I would have been wiser to tell him I was overloaded and couldn't take on any more work at this moment. No more than 24 hours later I received a phone call from Ray, a 24-year-old young man who told me his probation officer had passed on my phone number to him. I was intrigued by how polite and soft-spoken he sounded over the phone, and we set up an appointment for later in the week.

My work with people involved with the justice system, whether on probation or otherwise, began nearly 13 years ago when I was just a 22-year-old graduate student in Los Angeles, California. After years of agency work, I now operate a small private practice where probation officers, schools, and word of mouth drive young people like Ray to my door.

In community agencies I had worked in the past, I met with people twice a week as mandated by their sentences. More recently, I have started getting short-term referrals, which often allow for between 4-8 meetings with people. In the case of Ray, we ended up seeing each other 9 times. Probation assumed responsibility for payment for 5 meetings only.

After that, our time was up. However, Ray indicated that he wanted to continue to attend on his own volition. This is something that happens with a surprising number of cases. I have learned that if we call the probation officer on the case, the Department of Justice will usually pick up at least half of the cost for the remaining number of sessions, something they were willing to do for Ray.

Three days after first talking to Ray on the phone, he walked into the office wearing blue jeans, a red hoodie, and had headphones dangling around his neck. As he sat down across from me, I had an intuition that he was not a stranger to this process often called “therapy,” a fact he would confirm as we began talking.

It was as if he was bracing himself for what was to come. He sat back in his chair, both of his hands tightly grabbing on to an arm almost as if he was at the mercy of a neophyte airline pilot preparing to practice landing a massive 747 for the first time. Perhaps he was expecting a barrage of advice disguised as “psychoeducation?” Or was he steeling himself for inquiries about what might be neurochemically “wrong” with him? Everything about how he was composing himself suggested to me that this young man had heard it all before.

My first query was clearly not one he was expecting. “Do you mind if I ask what you are listening to?” gesturing to his headphones. Ray raised his head up to look me in the eyes for the first time since walking into the room, his gaze a blend of skepticism and curiosity. “Styles P and Pharoahe Monch,” he replied.

“How old are you again?” I said as a smile crept on to my face.

“Why?” he inquired.

“It’s just that most 24-year-olds I have spoken with aren’t keen to the ways of Styles P and Pharoahe Monch,” I said still smiling knowing the album he was referencing was over a decade old and was not one many young men of his age were typically in step with.

“A lot of this new shit ain’t real. I can feel what Styles and Pharoahe are saying,” Ray declared.

And with this, we were off. I had been granted the great privilege of riding shotgun in Ray’s lyrical journey. For the next forty-five minutes we listened to music on his phone and critically examined the verses he found most meaningful. What follows is an example of one such verse:

I Supreme Lord and Master (ISLAM)
But at times,
The words ring empty
When I see another homie blood splattered
Dreams get shattered
Family fractured
Ugly reputations is what give television ratings
Problem story plastered
Learn the science of our plight
These depictions keep penitentiaries packed tight
But only God can judge me
Once I fade away from life.

Yet another example:

How many Super Bowls passed
My mind’s eye showing possibility so I grasp
Of a hood block,
With no patrolling cops
No empty baggies once holding rocks
Shells from a glock
But the wisdom I've acquired allows us to question what was taught
Pause in the moment
The impulse can be stopped.

During the conversation that followed I learned that not only did Ray have an affinity for rap music, but he also wrote some rhymes of his own.

A Voice to the Voiceless

Travis: Listening to you today, Ray, I have a hunch that you and rap music have been homeboys for a long time and you both share a long and storied history together. Am I right or wrong?

Ray: Yeah, I mean, I can’t remember my life without rap. It’s like it was with me from the moment I came out of the womb. You know, I’m sure that’s not true, but that’s what it feels like.

T: Wow! Are you telling me that no one has been a friend to you longer than rap has? (He nods his assent) This seems like a really important relationship. Would it be okay with you if I tried to understand the relationship you and rap share a bit better?

R: Sure, go for it.

T: I’m curious to know if anyone has ever asked you about your relationship with rap before?

R: (pauses 10 seconds or so) I mean, not really. My homies and I cypher back-and-forth about it, but… you know… I haven’t really broken down my relationship with it if that makes any sense.

T: It does make sense. Thank you. Other than your homies, does anyone else ask you about your relationship with rap?

R: No, except for like teachers and probation and other adults throughout my whole life trying to tell me it’s violent and the music of the devil (takes his index fingers and makes horns over his head) and shit like that (laughs).

T: So, if I’m hearing you correctly, Ray, those adults don’t really ask you about your relationship with rap, but rather tell you the sort of relationship you should have with it?

R: Exactly! It’s like they don’t know shit about it but want to tell you it’s the root of all evil.

T: This is really remarkable to me, Ray! Would it be okay if I asked you a few more questions about it?

R: Oh yeah, no problem.

T: If it gets boring to you or you would rather go in another direction just tell me, okay?

R: Word (a hip-hop phrase that in this context verbalizes agreement).

T: What do you think the adults you just mentioned, like former teachers or people involved with probation, could stand to learn from your relationship with rap?

R: They would never learn anything because they won’t listen. Their minds are already done made up.

T: Do you mind if I ask what kind of headphones those are, Ray? (pointing to his neck).

R: These? Oh, man, these are Beats (a popular brand of headphones).

T: Now I heard you say that those folks wouldn’t listen, and I want you to know that I absolutely believe you. Even still, I want to invite you to imagine for a second that we could take a pair of Beats, maybe even magic Beats, and slip them on to the people that can’t or won’t hear while they were sleeping, and the message would sneak through their ears and permeate their minds whether they wanted it to or not. Imagine now that they have woken up. What education would rap have given them?

R: Man, I wish you could pick me up some of those headphones (said laughing)!

T: That would be pretty cool, right? Maybe that’s a project we can work on later (both of us laughing).

R: For real! What I think they would learn is that there are a lot of people in the world who don’t have a voice. If you are someone in the world who does have a voice, you know, that’s great. Good for you. And by voice I mean, you know, we all have like a voice box that works. What I mean when I say voice is a voice that others can hear or will really listen to. My whole life I’ve never really had that voice because I’m poor and black… except when I rap. This is true, you know, for like pretty much my whole crew in my neighborhood, too. Rap is our voice.

T: Are you of the opinion that the people who won’t listen that you referenced earlier would learn from the “magic Beats” that rap could serve as a voice for the voiceless?

R: Exactly. I mean, if everyone listens to everything you say anyway, then fine, you don’t need something like rap. (Begins rapping):

The more I wild out
Allows me to achieve that street clout
While lives are turned into tools
Did dominant narratives actually raise a bunch of fools?
Our escape from a jumpshot or a hip-hop plate?
While theirs is school?
But either one of us can lose
Trying to chase what Lupe articulated as The Cool,
White men in suits don’t have to jump
Still a thousand and one ways to lose with his shoes

R: You know, that line, “White men in suits don’t have to jump,” that’s what I’m talking about.

T: Right, there’s that old saying, “White men can’t jump,” when it comes to basketball. Did those lyrics do something clever with it?

R: For sure. White men don’t have to jump to make money and white men don’t have to rap to be heard. Don’t get me wrong, I write rhymes because I love to. Sometimes when I write it’s just about partying or females or something light. But I also write because it allows me to have a voice. You know, it’s like rap says to the world I’m going to say shit how it is whether you like it or not.

Of Protest and Freedom

It was becoming increasingly clear that Ray’s relationship with rap, and the hip-hop culture in which it resided, was one of protest, freedom, and inspiration. As our conversation continued to traverse the electrifying and winding roads of rap music, we alternated between listening to songs on Ray’s phone and discussing, almost philosophizing, at the conclusion of each. That served as inspiration for the following exchange:

T: Do you think rappers are philosophers?

R: No doubt. Rap is philosophy but without all the old white cats (said laughing).

T: Socrates is not the father or first philosopher of rap?

R: No! (Laughs harder)

T: Who do you think is?

R: Probably KRS-ONE.

T: What in your opinion is the job of a philosopher?

R: To make people think, like hold a mirror up to the world so they can see how foolish they are. (Begins rapping):

Peep the crucifix
Comes across mysterious
With I(j)ehova hanging from the partisan nails of politics
The origins
Governing men of Romans
Did agree to its means justifying capital punishment
For the minds
They despised
To keep all the sheep in line
While revolution sparked divine
Christ
But check the rhyme
What if they lynched him hanging from the branch of a tree
Then burned him half alive
Peep manipulation B
We would pray to a tree
Then human torching eventually
Fire associated with hell
Overstand irony
When a bullet burns its way into your brother's physical
Laid to rest in a wooden casket
Damned its cyclical.

T: What do you hear in these rhymes?

R: It’s like it exposes hypocrisy, you know what I mean? People believe things about God or religion or whatever without even opening up a book or thinking. They just accept a history they like or feel comfortable about or that some cat on TV tells them is right.

T: Are you of the opinion that there are multiple histories?

R: Oh yeah, no doubt. The history that you get in history books is the only one most people read, though.

T: Where do these histories come from?

R: Usually from your teacher and books in school.

T: Where does the information in those books come from?

R: I mean, that mostly comes from white people and their ancestors. You know, I took a philosophy class in college like 4 years ago and I don’t think we talked about one brother the whole time. That’s part of the reason I never fit in there.

T: And the fact that the only history that was discussed was from a white perspective, what does that mean for the other histories?

R: You see them in like Roots (a television mini-series from the 1970’s depicting the life of a black slave in the United States) and shit (laughing). We had to watch that in high school. That shit is so weak.

T: What would be a stronger portrayal?

R: You just heard one (in the previous rap). But it’s like I told you earlier, people don’t want to listen to those.

T: Do you believe you are a philosopher?

R: I never really thought about it like that. I know I’m a writer. But I guess that means I am a philosopher.

T: Do you mind if I tap into your own philosophical expertise?

R: Sure. I know what you’re go to say next (said with a wry smile). You are going to ask me about my philosophy on shit.

T: You know me too well already, Ray!

R: My philosophy is simple. It’s to see the truth even when they try and obscure it. It’s to go deeper. If you don’t, you’ll believe a lie.

T: How do you see deeper?

R: You have to do what my grandmother says: ignore the noise. You can’t believe everything you hear. You can’t even believe everything you think you see.

T: Is your grandmother a wise philosopher, too?

R: She’s the wisest person I know.

T: What has her philosophy taught you about the person you want to be?

R: She always says I didn’t raise no fool.

T: Would you say that your grandmother’s philosophy and the philosophy of KRS-ONE are similar?

R: Hmm… (pauses for 10-15 seconds) that’s crazy, bro. I never thought of it like that, but I guess so.

T: In what ways would you say they are similar?

R: Both of them are encouraging me to think in my own way. To be my own person. Basically, just be wise to the ways of the world.

T: Do you think that it would be helpful in our work to call on the ideas of great philosophers like your grandmother and also KRS-ONE as we try to navigate the situation that brought you to see me?

R: Yeah, it’s just crazy though because my grandmother hates rap. Like she thinks it “corrupts the youth” (fingers on both hands raised to make air quotes).

T: If only we had those “Magic Beats.” Do you think she would be more open to it then?

R: (Smiles and then laughs) Yeah, and maybe she would see that I’m rapping about like the same shit she’s saying but in my own way.

T: Have you ever thought that maybe the spirit of your ancestors and their struggles can be channeled through your raps? Maybe rap is like your history book?

R: I mean… that’s deep! I ain’t never thought of it quite like that, but yeah, my raps are about me, where I came from, and where my people came from.

T: Would it be okay if we cracked open your rap’s history book in our work together?

R: Yeah.

T: Do you think it might provide us with some stories that the regular history books miss?

R: Oh, no question! Stories that regular history books wouldn’t even touch!

So engrossed did we both become in the progression of this conversation that time itself seemed to melt away. Ray continued writing his own history through various rhymes and interpretations of them.

Removing the Shackles

At one point Ray could not conceal his enthusiasm for a verse he located on his phone. He said he had been listening to it for a few weeks with a great deal of frequency. It moved him so much that he immediately stopped the music after it had played and rapped the verse himself again.

With these I see
Crimson stains on this project concrete
Yellow tape barricade
Homie wrapped in white sheets
It's a struggle just to eat
So how the fuck do they rationalize judging me or my deeds
Grab a pen
Clear the phlegm
Then commence to bless the beat
Give ya'll a tour of my life
Without walking on my streets
It's my life!
Being scribbled on they college ruled pages
Escape when we cipher up
That type of freedom is amazing
My life!

I watched him intently and took a few deep breaths before breaking the silence we had both fallen into by my first query.

T: Ray, I noticed that you listened to this verse and then stopped the music and rapped it. Were you, by any chance, deepening your relationship with the lyrics by rapping it yourself?

R: I do this all the time. What I like to do is take a verse that someone else wrote and then just add my own flavor, kind of like sampling (a hip-hop term for taking an older song and mixing it with a new one) or remixing.

T: Do you mean that you take the original rhyme and add your own story?

R: Exactly.

Ray was so engaged that by the end of our conversation it was as if he were a different person than the one who walked through the door an hour before. Certainly he was a poor match for the description of the detached and uncaring young man who lacked any semblance of motivation that the probation officer had provided for me earlier in the week.

The fact there wasn’t much sand left in the hourglass of our first meeting had sneaked up on both of us. My mind was left spinning with possibilities for where our future conversations could go. With just five minutes remaining, I invited Ray to reflect with me on what had transpired which broke us both out of our enthrallment.

Travis: Would it be all right if I asked you a little bit about how our meeting today is going?

Ray: That’s cool.

T: Thank you, as I know I have asked you a lot of questions today. I appreciate you hanging in there with me. I’ve noticed that it’s very different when we are just speaking as opposed to when we invite rap to the party. Have you noticed this?

R: Yeah, for sure.

T: How do you understand this?

R: It’s like when I rhyme… I spit truth from my soul.

T: How is rapping with your soul different than talking with your mouth?

R: When I talk, I think. I thought that’s what we’re supposed to do in therapy, anyway. That’s what all those other fucking shrinks did.

T: Would it be all right if we made up our own therapy and put aside other kinds of therapy you have been through or heard about?

R: Yeah (said with a chuckle and skeptical eyes).

T: What can your soul rhyme that your mouth sometimes might have trouble saying?

R: Freedom. It’s like when I’m rapping I can feel the words come through my body. It’s natural, like I don’t have to think about it.

T: By that do you mean to say that rhymes remove the shackles that are attached to your soul?

R: Right (said turning his head to one side as if in deliberation and then nodding).

T: I saw your face light up. I wonder if inspiration is brewing in your soul this very moment? I know I am guessing so I could very well be wrong.

R: No, it’s just that I thought of a verse. (Begins rapping):

It's like we being played
When they say
Strive for a slice
Of they cake
They filthy hands holding hate
Choke out fate
But the rhyme melts the shackles
Oppression disintegrates
Even just for one moment
When we flowing on stage
It goes on and on and on…

T: Have you had shackles on your soul that rap music helps you break free from?

R: Yeah, sometimes it feels like rap is my only way to break free.

T: I notice when you rap that your whole body changes. For example, when we were just talking earlier you were kind of slumped down in your chair. But when you rap, your back straightens up, your face lights up, and your hands are active. It’s almost like I can see you breaking free right in front of me. What do you think would happen if rap made more frequent visits to your life?

R: I would feel more alive and like I have a voice, you know what I mean? Like being on probation it feels like I have no voice. I just get told what to do and it’s like they tell everyone the same thing and don’t really care what really makes someone tick. It’s like we are cattle just being pushed through the gates.

T: Do you think Rap music could be a great way for us to understand what makes you tick?

R: The best way!

T: I get the sense you have many important stories to rap about. Would you be willing to write a song between now and next time that paints the part of the picture that probation and maybe other people in your life don’t get about you?

R: (Nods affirmatively)

T: Do you know what I mean?

R: Oh yeah, for sure. I already feel a couple of ideas (pointing to his head). Like people automatically assume I’m stupid and like I’m some kind of bad person or criminal or something. They don’t even know me.

T: Might writing a rhyme about the parts they don’t know release the shackles from your soul?

R: Yeah, but not all the way.

T: It might take more than one rhyme to release them all the way?

R: Yeah.

T: Do you have many stories to tell?

R: Oh yeah!

T: I want you to know that I will support you in writing as many rhymes as it takes.

R: You’re the weirdest shrink they have ever sent me to. Not weird like bad, not bad at all, but does probation know you do this?

T: Do what? Ask people to rap?

R: Yeah!

T: They know I help people find the kinds of therapies that best work for them. Do you think this one we’ve come up with today might work for you?

R: Oh yeah, but I don’t even know if this is really therapy.

T: What would you call it?

R: It’s like a studio session where I’m making beats with my homies or something.

T: Should we have a studio session once a week together?

R: (Smiles and laughs) For sure.

Spitting From My Soul

Ray returned for our second conversation with his black New York Yankees hat turned to the side looking somewhat, but perhaps not yet completely relaxed as he sat down. He reached into his pocket and pulled out a folded piece of paper as his right leg bounced up and down. He quickly unfolded it and scanned over its content. “Here are a few lyrics,” he said quietly but with conviction as he handed the document to me. I was feeling a bit caught off guard that Ray had picked up so quickly where we left off in our last conversation.

T: Ray, I have to be honest, I feel so privileged to hold this is my hand right now. I wonder if I am holding a gift from your soul?

R: You could say that (kindly smiling at me).

T: I just had an idea and I’m curious if it would be okay if I shared it with you? (Ray nodded in the affirmative). Last week you told me that rhymes come from your soul when they are rapped. I could be wrong here, but I’m just wondering if I read the rhyme on the paper if it might lose some of its soulfulness? And the last thing I want to do is strip the rhyme of its soulfulness.

R: I’ve got a baseline for this (pointing to his phone). It’s dope (a hip-hop term that means good or of high quality) You want to hear it?

T: I would be honored, Ray.

As the music percolated through the small speakers on his phone I noticed I couldn’t help but bob my head. I looked up and Ray was doing the same. Our eyes caught and Ray smiled slightly with the left side of his mouth. In this moment I pondered whether or not I should invite him to rap, but I hesitated not wanting to make him feel uncomfortable in our second conversation. A few seconds later, Ray reached his hand out indicating he wanted the document with the lyrics on it back from me. I obliged. Ray bobbed his head a few more times and said, “This still needs a little more time in the lab, but…”

What happened next as Ray began to “spit truth” was almost like a detonation. The words rhythmically rolled off his tongue with an intensity that made me suspect something important was transpiring. I didn’t just listen to what he said, I felt it. Ray’s passion was palpable, and I could feel its infusion through my body. We now bobbed our heads in unison and for a brief time it was as if the world had shrunk and we were the only two people that now could fit in it. It was the kind of attunement and connection with another person that was equal parts mysterious and exhilarating.

Grandma said I should reconsider law school
That means I wear a suit and bend the truth and feel awful
Hell no, got a degree but what that cost you
You make a good salary just to pay Sallie Mae
That's real as ever
Ducking bill collectors like a Jehovah's witness
When they showed up at your door at Christmas
Praise God it's hard to stay spiritual
How they got these people on the TV selling miracles
You mean to tell me everything gonna be fine
If I call your hotline and pay 29.99
Well damn, why didn’t you say so
Take this check and ask God to multiply all my pesos

T: I am so captivated by what just happened, Ray! Would it be alright if I tried to understand your rhyming genius a little better?

R: For sure.

T: May I ask what is it about this rhyme that reveals a part of yourself that other people often fail to get?

R: People think that because I don’t have a college degree I’m stupid. They make that judgment up front. Now I’m not trying to say that college is always a bad thing (said looking at me knowing that I’m also a college professor), but, you know, sometimes it’s like a scam. Like, I'm a poor kid. Think about how much debt I would rack up by going to college. Dude, it’s astronomical. I tried community college for a year. Is that even a good investment? You know, I think a really good rhyme exposes the way people think. So that first part is just like a challenge. You know, just because these are the rules you play the game by doesn’t mean they are the only rules.

T: Do you think rhyming helps you create your own rules while also challenging the rules people tell you that you should follow?

R: No doubt. And sometimes you challenge rules in rhymes just to make people think.

T: Is that like what you were saying last week about rap as a philosophy (I asked Ray this very much hoping the conversation meant as much to him as it had to me).

R: Exactly, like KRS-One!

T: (Feeling relieved that we seemed to be catching up right where we left off last week, I continued) Can I tap a bit further into your rhyming knowledge here, Ray?

R: Sure.

T: Are you of the opinion that challenging rules is a good thing? (Ray nods in the affirmative) And why do you think it’s a good thing to challenge rules?

R: If no one challenges rules, shit gets stale. You know what I mean? Like people start to take things for granted. Sometimes a good rhyme is just like grabbing someone and going (pretends like he’s physically shaking someone). It’s like, wake up, yo!

T: Do you believe there are different ways to challenge rules?

R: A lot of different ways.

T: Are some ways of challenging rules more effective than others in your experience?

R: Yeah, I mean, look how I ended up here on probation.

T: How do you mean?

R: Ever since I was a kid, I would find myself in certain situations where I would get angry and step (a hip-hop term that means to challenge someone physically, often to a fight) to someone. Yeah, and it’s stupid, I know. I’ve been getting that lecture my whole life.

T: How do you understand the relationship between rap and anger?

R: When I would write rhymes, they would keep me out of trouble. Like if someone was pissing me off, I would just go home and make a beat about it. It’s like my anger would leave my mouth through my rhymes.

T: Let me see if I’m hearing you correctly, Ray, because I don’t want to get this wrong. Are you saying that rap is able to put anger in its place?

R: Yeah, I don’t end up doing something stupid.

T: Maybe this is a long shot, Ray, but do any rhymes come to mind that capture what we are talking about here?

R: No, not really… (pauses in a pensive fashion for 30 seconds or so)…actually, yeah, one does (he composes himself and then begins rapping):

References

Travis Heath on Psychotherapy as an Act of Rebellion

An Act of Rebellion

Lawrence Rubin: Hi Travis, thanks for joining me today. I first became aware of you and your work after reading “Reimagining Narrative Therapy” that you co-edited with Tom Carlson and David Epston. There you said that therapy is, or at least should be, an act of rebellion?
Travis Heath: I wrote that, huh? It’s always interesting to reflect on one’s own words. Should it be an act of rebellion? Maybe it shouldn’t be in every case. Yet, I think there could be therapeutic advantages to therapy being an act of rebellion. What I mean is that sometimes, usually unwittingly, therapy can become an act of reinforcing normative ways of being. What we might describe as “mentally healthy” may actually be a normative societal way of behaving. So then, an act of rebellion is when people move against the norm, right? To go against the status quo. And there could be — whether it be in therapy or elsewhere — immense therapeutic value when that rebellious act is consistent with who the person most knows themselves to be. Now, I’ll say that an act of rebellion for the sake of rebellion, like a contrarian act of rebellion around every turn, may not always useful. But one that is truly consistent with who a person is can have a positive impact on one’s mental health.
LR: And sometimes people come to therapy not sure of who they are, or which story is the one that is the healthiest for them to live by. Are you suggesting that for some people a therapeutic relationship allows them to rebel against norms that are oppressing them or holding them down?
TH: I think a therapeutic relationship can help with that, although I don’t know if that is enough alone. As someone who is informed by narrative ways of working, therapeutic questions are very important to me. Most of my questions are average at best and probably don’t lead to much change in people’s lives. But all I need is one really good question. Not one that I’ve conjured up, but one that just comes up quickly in the moment from the relationship I am having with the person that I just throw out there. A good question can open up a way of living that a person hadn’t articulated in a particular way before. Maybe they felt it somewhere or tried to imagine it, but now they’ve put words to a particular direction.
LR: This may be a tough one to pull out of your hat, but can you give me an example of a client that you recently worked with, or that stands out in memory, where you came up with the right question at the right time?
TH: Yeah, that’s a good question. I was working with a women-identified person in her 40s. In our culture, there are certain ideas about bodies — how they should look, and how bodies should and shouldn’t be shaped. I think this is especially so for women. That pressure seems to be increasing for those of us who are male-identified as well, but it’s been very tough for women for some time. She was really distressed when she came to me and was talking about eating peanut butter. Like, “I’m really distressed because I’m eating peanut butter.” And I remember saying to her, “Okay, I hear you and I want to understand what’s distressing about this?”
I remember saying to her, “Can I share something with you? I eat peanut butter too sometimes.” And she kind of smiled, but added, “No, I mean I eat too much peanut butter.” And I said, “Okay, again, I hear you. Help me understand. What’s too much peanut butter?” She said, “Well, I might eat a spoonful or two spoonfuls of peanut butter.” And I said, “Hey, I won’t want to tell you how to eat or what you should or shouldn’t be eating. I’m just really trying to understand. And I wonder, is it possible that you could eat a spoonful or two spoonfuls of peanut butter and that might in some way be okay? Now, if you told me you ate the whole jar or something and you were doing this nightly, I would understand how that would be distressing. But do you suppose it might be okay that you eat a spoonful or two of peanut butter?”
With that question, she burst into tears. It was a simple question, not something you’d see in a textbook as an exemplar. But it was really just a question that in some small way, maybe larger than I initially realized, invited her to think about how she came to understand what’s too much peanut butter and what’s not enough peanut butter. The question was asking her to consider how she came to understand that eating peanut butter might begin to define her as not a good person. How did she come to understand that process? And we really had a session just about peanut butter, which sounds sort of wild, but it wasn’t initially an act of rebellion. It became an act of rebellion for her because she was resisting some of these discourses about food and about her body.
I remember asking her, “Okay, so how often do you do this?” She said once or twice a month, so I said, “All right. Let’s just say that you stopped doing that. Do you then think your body would, over time, or maybe quickly, begin to conform to this body that you’ve been told you should have?” She really thought about that and said, “No, it probably wouldn’t.” “Well, what kind of acts of torture or anything else could you put your body through to make it look like these bodies you’re telling me would make you a good person?” In that moment, with that question and the questions and answers that followed, it was essentially about, “If I looked this way, I’d be a good person.” But she couldn’t initially articulate that. It was the question about “peanut butter” which enabled her to communicate those feelings of insecurity that she constantly experienced yet couldn’t ever explain. In that way, our conversation about eating, and even just existing in her body, became an act of rebellion against normative prescriptions of what society tells women is a good body.  
LR: You know, Travis, I would imagine at one level you were very aware that you weren’t really talking about a spoonful of peanut butter. Instead, you were creating a space in which she could really question the legitimacy of her rigid thinking, and maybe even dive more deeply into a conversation about self-worth, body image, and perhaps gender with its discontents.
TH: Lawrence, I might say it just a little bit differently. Not so much her own self-talk, but the talk of the culture that she had adopted and the cultural meaning of “self-talk.”. Because when people say “self” in front of anything — self-talk, self-esteem — I get skeptical. Self-talk isn’t really her talk, although it may feel like her talk because Lord knows how long that talk has been kicking around. But she didn’t come out of the womb with that talk. That talk came from someplace, and now it’s become a part of her. So, I think that this act of rebellion you’re talking about, when it is really shining, can help people see that and say, “Oh gosh, I didn’t come out of the womb with this. Actually, these aren’t my ideas.” Then that can lead to, “And I don’t even have to subscribe to these ideas,” which can be very liberating.  

Confessions of an Anti-Manualist

LR: So, you created a space in which she was given permission to rebel against certain language that has been forced on her or force-fed to her. Shifting gears a bit, has traditional therapy’s search for the grail of evidence-based techniques enhanced or diminished the craft of psychotherapy?
TH: I like the question, and I think it’s an important one. Without trying to be too long-winded, I do think that historically the idea of “evidence-based techniques” came from a good place. By that, I mean hey, there was a time when psychotherapy was viewed in a certain kind of way—the work of charlatans. Hell, there were psychologists, not clinical psychologists, but there were psychologists — I think Cattell and some of those other folks — that weren’t necessarily huge fans of psychotherapy. And so, I think there was a time when it was important to show that there was some kind of scientific evidence base, that therapy wasn’t just akin to palm-reading. Maybe I shouldn’t dismiss that out of hand, but that’s a different conversation. The point being, there was a real reason for attempting to create psychotherapeutic techniques with evidence as their primary foundation.
At some point, this idea of evidence-based practice got tangled up with late capitalist ideas, and people discovered that you could sell a hell of a lot of workbooks. You could also bring a hell of a lot of legitimacy to what you were doing, and it helped your personal brand that was tangled up with the brand of your therapy. That’s where I think it started to become problematic. So, the idea of having evidence is not necessarily bad. But when it’s done for these sorts of capitalist reasons, I become concerned about it.
Now to your question of the art, if you will, of psychotherapy. I’ll share a quick story from a class I was teaching probably 10 years ago. It was an undergraduate intro to clinical and counseling class, and as we discussed I have never been too keen on these evidence-based models. So, I started the class by bringing in treatment manuals and handing them to everyone. “All right class let’s look these over. What do you think about them?” Most of the students, and I think this says a lot, were comforted by this. “Oh, great. I could do this. I could follow this script.”
Then one intrepid young woman who sat in the front of the class asked, “Well, what happens if you’re using this and it doesn’t work with someone?” And I said, “Well, okay, that leaves us at a bit of an impasse, doesn’t it? I personally don’t believe there are just two ways to do therapy. But let’s just look at two possibilities. So, one possibility is we use this manualized approach that we’re looking at. And it works to a certain degree for some people, maybe even most people. And you do a mediocre, good enough job, your whole career. And then, every now and again, you find someone it really doesn’t work for, and I guess you just abort mission. Or another option — it’s not the only other option — is that we learn how to do this on sort of a moment-to-moment basis. We’re really being in touch with the other person.” I said some other shit, too, but the students almost universally agreed that one sounds better, but it also sounds scarier. It sounds like a lot more work. And how do I know if I’m doing it right? They had all these questions, which were all very fair.
My worry is that somewhere, usually early on in people’s formal training, without even realizing, without even really being presented it, they’re nudged to make the choice of one manualized treatment over another. They’re nudged to go down one of these pre-determined roads — and they’re sort of nudged often. And then if you’re trained in that way, it’s hard to put the genie back in the bottle. It’s not really that one way of doing therapy is superior, but if you’ve worked with enough people, you come to understand that you aren’t going to be able to take the same damn thing and apply it to everyone who walks through the door, or even most people.  
LR: So, would you say that you are an anti-manualist, or that you practice an anti-manualized form of therapy? I know Narrative Therapy is, by definition, an anti-manualized intervention.
TH: I have never heard it put that way. I like the term. I accept the term. I don’t know if I always live up to that as much as I could. I mean look, there are certainly patterns to my work. And people who know my work well and who have watched it behind mirrors or whatever they’ve done over the years, could point to patterns in my work. I don’t know if patterns are manuals because I’m not necessarily adhering to a prescriptive one, two, three, four, this is the order of how you do things. But there’s a certain soul to the way that I work. And there are patterns in how I work. I won’t deny that. At one point, however many years ago, I said, “Well, I never do the same therapy twice.” That feels a little self-aggrandizing. Like why am I saying that? Yes, there are elements that overlap. So, to be an anti-manualist, yes. I like that idea. And, I have to acknowledge that not everything I do with every single person is completely new and creative. There are some patterns that you see.

De-Colonializing Therapy

LR: There are likely many clinicians in our audience who are really into manuals. It seems that once a therapy has an acronym, a workbook, and a “seal of approval” by some credentialing body, it becomes the stuff of grail. In this vein, and based on our conversation and my reading of your work, are we speaking about detraditionalizing therapy practice?
TH: Thanks for asking these questions. To detraditionalize, for me, is something that if it doesn’t happen, then a therapy dies. But let’s get outside of therapy for a moment. I think almost anything dies. Maybe some of the folks who would frequent this interview may not be sports fans, so excuse the sports analogy, but I’m a big basketball fan — played basketball my whole life. And people will watch the modern NBA and they’ll say, “these guys shoot too many three-point shots. Back in my day, we never shot 30-foot shots.
That may be true enough, but the game has to evolve. It must evolve. It cannot stay stagnant. Now, did it have to evolve in the way it did? Maybe not. But it must evolve, or it dies. And I think it’s the same with therapy. So, to detraditionalize, it’s not that we can’t do it with intention, we can. But I think for an approach to therapy to remain viable over the years, it must change and evolve. A lot of psychoanalytic psychodynamic approaches are probably misunderstood in the modern world. But the best practitioners I know who appreciate and look through that lens, they’re not doing the same shit Freud was doing. They might have taken some of those ideas and some of those cues, but they’ve detraditionalized them. In a way, they’ve modernized them. So, that’s the first thing I want to say.
The second is, like in my work, I think traditionally there is a healer and a person to be healed. And then the person that’s the healer is somehow supposed to have the answers or write the prescription. And to meI’ll take a line from my mentor friend and colleague David Epston — a lot of Narrative Therapy is about elevating the knowledge of the other. And so much of my practice, and a part of it that I think is maybe detraditionalized, is not to rely on psychological knowledges, or psychiatric knowledges or descriptions, but to try to elevate the knowledge of the other.
And the other doesn’t just include the person who’s in front of you. There’s a whole ancestral presence that often comes with that person who sits in front of you. Whether they realize it or not, it travels with them, it informs them with insider knowledge about how they may approach distress or problems that they’re up against in the world. And even so with therapists that would make the claim, “Well, I’m client-centered, I focus on the client.” Yes, but if you actually watch it unfold, it’s still based on a counseling prescription or a psychiatric or psychological prescription about how the session should go. It isn’t necessarily elevating the knowledge of the other. 
LR: You said something earlier, and I don’t necessarily want to skip around too much, but it seems like we’re entering a cross-conversation about multiculturalism. When we talk about “elevating the other,”, are we getting at your ideas about working with “the other,” and what you have referred to as “decolonializing” psychotherapy?
TH: The phrase I’ve liked most recently is “anti-colonialize.” De-colonialize is fine, but I don’t like post-colonial, because post-colonial implies that somehow, we’ve moved past colonial logic, which we haven’t. Anti-colonial to me just seems like a little bit of a stricter stance against past, present, and future colonial logic and colonial attempts at living. So, I’ll start with that. But de-colonial is fine. I like that word, too.
You’ve heard me use the phrase “colonial logic,” but I’d like to weave in yet another term here: “multicultural.” If we look at the term “multicultural,” and a multicultural approach to therapy or counseling, often what that is saying is, “Hey, those of you from non-European descent, you can come, we welcome you. You can come and heal in these Eurocentric mediums of healing.” On the surface of it, that’s a nice offer. But it doesn’t make a ton of sense. And really what it’s doing is replicating colonial logic in that, “Hey, these European ways of being, behaving, and these European standards of living, these are the right standards. And we’re going to help you through therapy live up to these standards and these ways of being.”
To me, an anti-colonial approach would seek to first try to find the colonial logic that’s at play. And nobody bats a thousand at that, I would argue. But because it’s so embedded in the culture, we don’t think to critique it, although that has been happening more in the last couple of years. Anti-colonial, then, talks about culturally democratic approaches to therapy. A friend of mine, Makungu Akinyela in Georgia, has a type of therapy called “Testimony Therapy” which he equates to being next of kin to narrative therapy and African-centered therapy approaches. He says that a culturally democratic approach is to invite people to speak on behalf of their own healing.
And so, if we hope to practice an anti-colonial approach, which to me is like the big umbrella term, then a culturally democratic practice seems important because people are allowed to speak on behalf of their own healing. Speak in their mother tongues. Speak through the cultural knowledges that they have come up with.
One thing about psychiatry and psychology, if we’re not careful, is we can get a little too big for our britches. We can think that healing’s only taken place in the last century-and-a-half, or whatever it’s been. No, it’s like, hey, come on, you think just because we’ve now labeled these things as depression or anxiety or PTSD, people haven’t been up against these things throughout time? 
LR: Like we invented these afflictions.
TH: Right. And did these people with depression and anxiety all just curl up in a ball and not live their lives? No, people have experience with healing. And they have knowledge about healing. It doesn’t have to exist in a Eurocentric way. And often what therapists are doing — almost always unwittingly — when they’re reproducing colonial logics in their practice is recolonizing people. And often the therapist doesn’t realize this is happening, nor does the client. And yet, this process is playing out. It’s assimilation. We talk about, should people assimilate when coming to a new country…Well, really that’s what therapy has often been doing, again unwittingly. I don’t think this has been done with malice.
LR: This is psychiatric assimilation.
TH: Right, exactly. And so traditional therapy reproduces this colonial logic, which then sometimes — again, completely unwittingly almost always — is reproducing internalized racism where people might already experience feelings of inferiority. It doesn’t always have to be around race, of course. It could be any number of other factors. So, I hope that there’s some justice to your question.
LR: So, traditional multicultural counseling, if I’m hearing you right, is, “Sure, come into my session, wear your native garb, let me learn a couple of buzzwords that are unique to your culture. And sure, tell me your story. But in the end, I’m going to lay some ACT on you.”
TH: Yeah. And again, almost never is this done with malice. But that’s some of the demanding work I think we have to do. And another thing is like, okay, I am of mixed racial background. I have the blood of the colonizer and the colonized that runs through me, which is a complicated place.
One of my colleagues out here in San Diego now, Vid Zamani, he was the first one I heard say that if we are reproducing traditional Eurocentric ways of doing therapy, then we are a de facto White. And I really appreciated that, because it was like, well, just because of my own background, that doesn’t make me immune from practicing colonial logic. And he said, of course, that makes total sense.
But if we’re not careful, then what happens is in the field’s attempt to diversify—sure, we might look diversified on the surface, but our practices aren’t that diversified—we’re still practicing the same colonial logics. The practice really isn’t changing, even if superficially the people doing the practice look different.   
LR: So, until the psychotherapist recognizes that they are colonializing their clients, until the traditional colonializing psychotherapist rebels against their own inherited narratives of what psychotherapy is, they will continue to colonialize their clients. And colonialize the psyches of their clients.
TH: Yes. And this is, I’ve found, a largely unpopular idea. Especially among folks who have been doing this for a while. I’ll share this story that I think drives home your point. I was doing a job interview. Not for the institution I’m currently at, but for a past institution. I was doing a presentation that talked about some of this stuff that we’re talking about now. And when I got to the end of it, a dude says to me — an older white man in his 60s, “Hey, I’m going to throw you a softball question.” And right away I was like, okay, yeah, what’s this guy up to? And then he says, “Well, what am I supposed to do when you tell my students that I am practicing a therapy that’s colonizing folks?” And I thought about it for about five seconds, and then respectfully I said, “Well, if I can share something with you, I can guarantee you I’m practicing in colonizing ways. And in fact, I can guarantee you I’m doing it in ways I’m not yet aware of. So, in that sense, I wouldn’t be asking you to do anything that I am not practicing myself.” But I found that there are folks that are resistant to the fact that their work could be colonizing at all.

Communities of Care

LR: In the context of this thing called multicultural practice and colonization, what do you mean when you talk about the dignification of the client? I think that was your word.
TH: No, it’s David Epston’s word, although I might have used it. What’s interesting about that, Lawrence, is that I met David in 2015, so that’s seven or so years ago. I had been out of graduate school a good six, seven years at that point. I had been practicing in the community for the same amount of time. I had been a university professor for seven or eight years. I had been around this a minute, and I had never — and I mean literally never — heard a person use the word “dignity” regarding clients in therapy. I was taken aback by the word the first time I heard it in this context. Dignification is even a little better than dignity.
When someone’s up against something, some kind of distress — I’ve worked with a decent number of people in the criminal legal system — they are often stripped of their dignity. And so, dignification is really an effort to afford the person that dignity within the conversation. And when we engage in dignification and people can feel that they have dignity, that helps to open additional stories in their lives. And maybe those stories were already there, but if they don’t feel as though they have dignity, then those stories are inaccessible to us. Even if they’re there someplace.
I noticed this with people in the penal system—it doesn’t happen after one meeting and could actually take months — but when they really started to feel dignity, and that they were living a life with dignity, and respected as a person with dignity, we would start to see a turning point in what we were doing. Because there aren’t many systems that are practicing un-dignification more than the criminal legal system. And so, it was actually a great place for me to see that juxtaposition of when people are afforded dignity. And these probation officers would ask me, “Hey, how did you get this young man to take responsibility for his actions?” And I said, “Well, first by never mentioning the term ‘personal responsibility.’ That’s probably not a great way to go, even if that’s what you’re hoping for. And secondarily, by taking them seriously. Treating them with dignity. Listening to their ideas. Taking that insider knowledge they have and really using it as something that could move us forward in a way that would make sense in their lives.
LR: Your dislike of the notion of “personal responsibility” brings me to something you said about the difference between self-care and communities of care. What is that difference?
TH: Well, it depends. What’s the goal? If the goal is to make money and sell lots of products, then we’re not moving in the wrong direction at all. I think Ronald Purser is the dude’s name, he wrote the book “McMindfulness.” He articulates this as well as anybody I’ve heard. It’s worth the read.
Look, self-care is another one of those things I feel like came from a good place. And when I talk about my issues with self-care, I preface it by saying, if you want to take a bubble bath, that could be lovely. If you want to watch a movie or do whatever, great. I’m not against that. Where I find this to be problematic, and our field has done this as much as any that I’ve seen, is a student, for example, in a master’s or doctoral training program in our field starts struggling. And often the response by those in charge has been, “Well, are you doing your self-care? What are you doing to take care of yourself?” But then you look at a PhD student. They come here, work 18 hours a day, doing all their school stuff. We don’t pay them enough to survive, we give them a small stipend. Now they have to go work another job. But we remind them “please don’t forget to take care of yourself.”
Essentially and systemically, we outsource the responsibility for the oppressiveness of the system and then turn around and say, “It’s your responsibility.” As opposed to a community of care — and this is something I try to think about in my role as chair now of an academic department — which is, “Okay, if we have faculty that are drowning or students that are drowning, what are we doing to do to help, rather than lay the responsibility on the student to adapt to a system that is rather oppressive?” So, do we need to scale back some of what we’re requiring? Do we need to change the ways that the system operates? What can we be doing, other than once a school year bringing puppies in? “Hey, that’s lovely.” Or they’ll have a little massage chair set up. Fine.
I was talking to someone this morning, and the language that she used was so passive. We say, “I’m experiencing burnout.” And my thought about that is, no, you’re being burned out. That’s not the same thing. It’s about experiencing burnout versus being burned out. Our systems are burning us out. And so,  if our systems are burning us out and we’re asking people to handle this individually while the system that’s doing this for its own gain takes no responsibility, well, then this is just going to keep repeating.
And I’ll come full circle to say that I think, not individual people, necessarily, but folks with something to sell don’t mind that. Because if the person is continually being burned out, guess what? They’re going to consume more of the product that we want. So, the system is actually set up beautifully for making money. I don’t necessarily think it’s set up good for quote-unquote “mental health.” 
LR: So, in a sense, graduate trainees, like therapy clients, are typically colonized and oppressed by structures of authority. What do you mean when you say that therapy — and graduate education in the context of this conversation — should be an act of shared humanness?
TH: Yeah, I think again, the culture that we’re in is so ruggedly individualist, that often the human experience gets defined solely within the individual. And I worry about that. And to me, therapy at its best is shared humanness. I used to do this early on when I was a therapist. I came up for my first master’s class in 2002 with all these journals under my arm. I was going to save the world by going into these communities in South Los Angeles. And it didn’t take me long to figure out that shit wasn’t going to work, and I had to do something else. I learned that quickly.
The way I think about the shared humanness now is, we can’t be doing what we’re doing right now in this conversation without shared humanness. The same goes for a therapeutic conversation. When there is shared humanness and it comes together, something exponential is possible. But I would not be able to say everything I’m saying today during our time together without your questions. Your question takes me somewhere that I couldn’t have gone just by myself. Maybe I could have generally gone there, but something about your questions and the give–and-take transports us there. And the shared humanness in therapy is exactly the same. You bring these two people together. And what we could each accomplish on our own could be fine, or even good. But what we can accomplish in this shared human way is exponential.    

Wholehearted Therapy

LR: Very similar to what Irvin Yalom refers to as the hereandnow—that the therapeutic relationship is lived in the moment the fruits of psychotherapy grow from the back and forth. Is this related to what you describe as “wholehearted therapy practice?” And what does a therapist look like when they’re practicing halfhearted therapy?
TH: I think halfhearted therapy, or quarterhearted, or two-thirdshearted could happen for a lot of different reasons. But to me, wholehearted therapy is bringing all of yourself to the practice. One of our students asked a fair question just a couple of weeks ago; “How do I know how to be in therapy relative to how and who I am out in the world?” They asked it a little differently, but basically what they were asking was based on their feeling, “I don’t know how to not bring all of who I am into the room.”
And so, I think halfhearted therapy can happen when we think that there are parts of us that somehow can’t come into the room. Now, what I’m not saying is that there are certain topics we might not talk about in the room. Now, I would even question some of those and whether they are truly off limits, and I do frequently. But obviously there would be some topics that would be off-limits for us. Therapists could decide that. But I’m not so much talking about the topics of discussion. I’m talking about how much of themselves that they’re bringing. And I fear that therapists are often taught not to bring important parts of themselves.
With regard to halfhearted therapy, they could be doing therapy in a system in which they’re chronically underpaid and overworked, and their spirits are just really sucked dry. And then they just don’t have that spirit to bring. In no way would I blame the therapist for that. But if I think about the times when I’ve engaged in halfhearted or quarterhearted, or however much hearted therapy practice, it’s often been for those reasons. Now, earlier on in my career, it was because I was asking myself, well, can I be this in the room? And of course, that’s a ludicrous question, because I am this. So, one way or another, the person that I’m in conversation with starts to deduce that anyway.
LR: In the recently released “Reimagining Narrative Therapy Through Practice, Stories, and Autoethnography,” you wrote a chapter entitled, “Maybe We Are Okay: Contemporary Narrative Therapy in the Time of Trump,” in which you narrated the therapeutic interaction you had with a person whose political views, specifically, their Republican views, clashed very dramatically with your Democratic views. So much so that the conversations about who you voted for 2016 became part of the therapeutic relationship. And in that relationship, you nicely demonstrated how you can disagree with someone’s political views, but still respect them as a person. Was that an example of wholehearted practice?
TH: It was interesting how that chapter came about. You know how therapists can get together and start talking in between seeing clients. Well, I noticed a lot of my colleagues saying something like, “Well, if Trump came to therapy, would you work with him?” I didn’t say anything when my colleagues were saying, “NO, I would never do that! Who could do that?” But then, I thought about it, and I was like, yeah, I think I’d work with him. I don’t know if he’d want to work with me. Maybe he’d tell me to get lost, but I think I’d try.
I just remember how outraged they were. And when they asked the question of how I would do that, I would say, “Well, I haven’t worked with Trump, but I’ve worked with plenty of people who have views that are very different than mine.” So, that was the inspiration for this, to try to explain shit to myself. Even after writing the chapter, I’m not sure I understand how I always engage in this work. But, to go back to bringing one’s full self into the room, we didn’t get deeper into the party politics in that chapter. But if we happened to in our sessions, I wasn’t super-enthused about voting for Hillary. I felt like a lot of people — like I have to decide between two people that I’m not really enthused about. Okay, I’ll take the one that I’m a little more enthused about. I’ll engage in a minimization-of-harm vote, is kind of how I felt.
But clearly, in the chapter you’re describing, my client and I voted for different people. When that moment came up, the question was, “Do I talk about it or do I not?” And the thing about that is, okay, I could decide not to talk about it. I could decide to do the thing as, “Oh, that’s an interesting question. I wonder why you’re asking?” But she knew. She had a sense of this, of who I voted for. And I’ve heard people say this kind of thing who haven’t read the chapter, but have said, “Well, you know, you’ve got to be careful. You’re pressing your political views on them.” But I disagree. What I’m doing in therapy is I’m simply showing up as I am, and she can show up as she is. And then we have to figure out how that meshes, and how we do the work together that we’ve been charged with doing with one another.
And that doesn’t require me being neutral. And by the way, I’m not neutral. It’s just a matter of whether I admit I’m not. I’ve seen a lot of discourse around this lately about neutrality and people debating what it means and all this kind of stuff. But to me, it’s an impossibility. We are not neutral. And so rather than try and pretend as though I am — not unsolicited would I share such a thing, but when it works its way into the session — when she brings this up, it’s like okay, let’s talk about the shit that we’re not supposed to talk about. Let’s talk about religion. Let’s talk about politics. To me, therapy seems like a great place to do that. And not just in the sense of me just passively listening or looking for pathology in the patient and how they talk about this. But rather, let’s have an actual conversation with two wholehearted human beings about the thing that we’re not supposed to have a conversation.
 
LR: In a sense, you are co-rebelling against the mandates of traditional therapy with a client by self-disclosing and by being fully present.
TH: And neither of us has to change our political party. Although for me, I’m not that enamored with the Democratic Party, either. But I’m not sure I have a party that represents my interests, to be honest. I certainly wouldn’t say I’m an Independent. That has its own set of connotations. But I don’t feel like I have a party that represents my interests. And I didn’t say that explicitly. At least I don’t recall saying that in my work with her. But perhaps it came out. Perhaps this is more complicated than we give it credit for.
And to me, probably these last two or three years, I’ve constantly been on the lookout in my therapeutic work for people with binaries. Because our culture relies so heavily on them. And I often find that when people bring those up, that’s at the root of something that they’re really struggling with. And it’s built into our language, Lawrence. We say, “Well, I need to hear both sides of the story.” And to me I’m like, I’d like to hear all the sides of the story that I could hear. I’d like to hear many sides of the story. I found that often people are thrust into these binaries, and it almost feels like there’s not another option. So part of my job is to have these discussions and then look outside of those binaries for what could be there. And I don’t think therapists do this on purpose, or clients do it on purpose. It seems to be a real cultural thing.  
LR: I used to joke with my classes — sorta — by saying, “There are two types of people in the world. Those who believe there are two types of people in the world, and those who don’t.” Does this wholeheartedness, the kind you described in your work with this particular client involve what you refer to as “radical respect?”
TH: I can tell you the story about where that term came from. I don’t know if we mentioned it in the book, but it came from Art Frank, a brilliant writer. He’s not a therapist but when he would read transcripts of sessions or watched sessions, he said, “When I see David [Epston] practicing, Tom [Stone Carlson] practicing, what I see is radical respect.” And so that term actually came from someone outside of the therapeutic community altogether, which I think is worth noting.
I think part of what he’s getting at is there is that no matter where the person moves, no matter where they might take the conversation, no matter what the stories are that they might wish to live through, or that are living through them, that narrative therapy endeavors — it isn’t always successful — but endeavors to hold this deep respect for people and why they are behaving the way they are. Why they’re living through the stories that they are. Why they’re feeling the way they are. And that radical respect then to me promotes curiosity.
So, in the chapter that you were referencing, the Trump chapter as it’s getting to be called, I hope there were some examples of radical respect in there. I’ll give you an example from the chapter of my attempt at it. When I came to realize that by completely dismissing her perspective — which I don’t think I did, but I could have because I found a lot of things Trump did objectionable — I might have been engaging in some sort of erasure of her family. And that would have been highly disrespectful. And so even when it was something that I fundamentally disagree with, there was still a way I could practice respect. This was opposed to going, “Well, but you’re on the wrong side of history.” I also think radical respect is a feeling that both the therapist and client experience, sometimes without words.
Art Bochner talks about “evocative autoethnography” which is not about the therapist simply being a fly on the wall, but instead being moved by the client’s story, their narrative. Let’s say you were reading that chapter about me and the woman, and you had never seen either of us before, and then you see us walk out of a room. You’d know it was us. But the point is, that’s what we’re endeavoring with autoethnography. We get out of the world of jargon so both partners in the therapeutic moment can feel and experience it.  
LR: As we near the end of our time, Travis, I want you to know that I’ve had a lot of fun in this interview. Do you have any questions for me?
TH: No, but I will say one thing quickly, though. If therapy is really an act of rebellion, then there has to be something at stake, there has to be risk involved. It has to mean that you could be out of compliance in some way — with tradition, with certification standards, with accreditation expectations. And if we’re not doing anything, if what we’re doing is completely devoid of risk, or we’re afraid to take any of that, then we won’t move any of these things forward. And I know plenty of people who are, in their own ways, challenging these different systems. And this is not to knock the accrediting bodies. They have their role. But we have to take some of these risks. To detraditionalize, as we were talking about earlier. Risk is inevitable, right?
LR: On that note, I think I’m going to say goodbye. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, Travis. It reignites me.
TH: Stay in touch. Holler at me with whatever.

QUESTIONS FOR CLINICAL THOUGHT

  • How does Dr. Heath’s description of his work resonate with your own therapeutic approach?
  • Which of his concepts strikes a particular chord with you and why?
  • How might you have worked with the client who struggled with peanut butter consumption?
  • How do you engage in radical respect with your own clients? Do you have difficulty doing so with a particular type of client?
  • Can you think of a client with whom you have worked, or continue to work, wholeheartedly or halfheartedly?
  • What about Narrative Therapy interests you and challenges you to learn more about the model?

A Path Towards Healing Generational Trauma

Jaza is a client who suffers from generational trauma rooted in the genocide of Native American people, ancestral trauma from theft of their land and livelihood, and the ongoing cumulative impacts of Indian Residential schooling. Colonization, the active process of settling and taking control over the indigenous people, reverberates as ancestral trauma in Jaza’s day-to-day life. She has used her therapy time with me to examine messages passed down to her from family about the way she should live and breathe as a descendant and recipient of these experiences. She asked an important question when we were talking about ancestral resilience and wisdom as an antidote to ancestral trauma: “Is it really ‘resilience’ if so many of my people are still suffering?”

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Historical trauma is a cumulative experience. It doesn’t simply disappear because the event or events have passed. I have seen the impact of slavery on Black clients, the residual, multigenerational effects on Asian clients of the Chinese Exclusion Act and Japanese internment camps, and the destructive legacy of Holocaust concentration camps on Jews, the Roma, and those with disabilities. In therapy sessions with Jaza, we acknowledge the trauma, hurt, pain, and suffering her family has experienced and work to heal her wounds from the genocide of Indigenous people.

We reframe the harmful messages that have been passed down to her which include:
“You look like your great-grandmother with your hair styled that way. Don’t wear it like that to work. It’s unprofessional!”
“We don’t speak our native languages anymore. We should write in proper English and not reveal our roots.”
“You look too Indian in that—you are more likely to get in trouble with the law.”

For ancestral, cumulative, and generational trauma with Jaza and clients with similar legacies, I have used narrative building to reframe harmful histories and messages passed on through lineage and reorganize them within the client’s mental schema as survival techniques from living in oppression. Why did your grandmother pass on that message to you? What was she trying to protect you from? How does it hurt you today? Can we acknowledge her attempts at survival in colonization, and can we release them? These messages are meant to help but have caused pain and confusion for Jaza.

We spend time processing and then releasing the messages. We don’t talk about it as redemptive resilience, but more like expired wisdom. Wisdom that is necessary for her to have in her mind, but then packed up and stored away only to be revisited when she wants to reconnect to her ancestry. It does not apply to her current time period and life experience. There are occasions in which we celebrate the passed-down wisdoms and look for ways to incorporate them into present day life. There are other moments in which we look to reduce the impact of the messages and the memories associated with them.

As a clinician, it is important for me to remember that this type of resilience is not like that of a plant growing despite difficult weather conditions. Instead, it is akin to a plant’s maintaining and struggling to survive despite pesticides and unnecessary attempts to kill it while nearby plants perish. This is resilience in spite of the historical trauma. It is watching family members and friends succumb to colonization. It is a reaction to forced assimilation, assimilation for survival, and assimilation for respectability. This is about the need to have assimilated to a colonizer’s dominant culture and about keeping wisdom in a box, being grateful for a little more freedom than her ancestors had, and reconnecting to her roots with intentionality. This reconnection can be healing.

As Jaza puts some of those messages in storage, she learns more about how this historical trauma impacts her day to day. She learns about rituals her family developed over time and incorporates them into her life. Jaza learns about the foods her family ate, the scents they valued, the seeds they planted, all in an attempt to reduce the colonization she experiences to this day, and in so doing, feel more connected to her ancestors.

***

Jaza has taught me that a redemptive story can be a strategy a descendant holds onto as they begin to heal the painful and enduring wounds of ancestral trauma. The question of resilience in and its relationship to oppression is an examination I have to do continuously for my own ancestral history. My birth country of Haiti is often deemed a resilient nation after incessant political disasters and catastrophic climate impacts. I look at the historical facts, the systems of oppression, the harmful messages my lineage shared with me, and treasure the wisdom and resilience I can bring into my life with intention.