Although Arnold Lazarus is well known for his work in behaviorism, having in fact coined the term “behavior therapy,” he reveals in this lively conversation with Dr. Terry Wilson that he was not impressed the first time he saw a demonstration of behaviorism. But when he heard that a friend of his was considering a prefrontal lobotomy for agoraphobia which psychodynamic therapy had failed to ameliorate, Lazarus recommended she at least give systematic desensitization with Dr. Joseph Wolpe a try. Wolpe’s methods prevailed, and Lazarus realized that there really was something to behaviorism that deserved a second look.

Throughout this interview, Lazarus’s vivid stories and sharp insights take the viewer down the path of his illustrious career, from his initial failure in graduate school to the development of Multimodal Therapy. Lazarus’s distinct clinical wisdom stems from his passion for clinical work in combination with his ethos of practicality. Eschewing the more dogmatic elements of behaviorism, Lazarus provides an inspiring example of how to balance theoretical clarity with clinical flexibility and open curiosity about the process of change. Reflecting on his popularity among clinicians, Lazarus surmises that, “They are interested in what I’m interested in, which is, how can we be more effective with our clients? Now we know from all our studies that a certain number of people will benefit regardless… …but that’s not good enough. You see, the relationship is necessary but often insufficient.”